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- #21
Putnam Park / MVP / April 14th - 15th 2012
- Thread starter Steve Fehr
- Start date
Good Day All:
Our June 11th Autobahn and July 7-8 Road America track dates are already 1/2 full. Hope to see the St. Louis Cobra gang at the track.
Registration is available at: http://www.MVPTrackTime.com/id47.html
Feff
Our June 11th Autobahn and July 7-8 Road America track dates are already 1/2 full. Hope to see the St. Louis Cobra gang at the track.
Registration is available at: http://www.MVPTrackTime.com/id47.html
Feff
Good luck at the track tomorrow all. Hope it doesn't rain on your parade. Mark, drive it like you stole it, try out those new parts and tires!
Pretty much a total rain out today. I went out for the first session. The rain had stopped. The track was damp. I was on the warm up lap, in second gear, going about 25 MPH and slid around 3 corners. Done. The track was wet for the rest of the day. I spent the afternoon putting on my new slicks, resetting my shocks. Ready for tomorrow. Supposed to be partially sunny and 80 degrees. Let the big dog eat.
Good Luck Mark. Hope you have fun.
It was fun. Had some problems though. With Saturdays rain out, I spent the afternoon mounting the new wheels/tires on the car. Getting ready for a nice day on Sunday. On the first warm-up lap Sunday - there was white smoke coming out of the back of the car. I thought - CRAP - I'm going 20MPH and I just blew a head gasket. I pulled into the pits and the officials told me I have a tire rub causing the smoke. Crap. The rub was on the inside of the rear wells. I raised the ride height about 1/2" and and turned to shocks to 100% stiffness. I went out on the 2nd session. Same thing - one lap and done.
The Superformance guys told me that the rear tires are 1/2" too wide for the car. They are 335 Hoosiers and I should have ordered 315s. So, anyway a SPF guy had made a body-mod to his car to accept the 335s and offered to buy them from me. Cool. That is unless anyone here wants them. Let me know.
So, I mounted on my street tires back on the car and decided to run the 3 afternoon sessions to learn a few things about my winter mods, and the track - and boy did I learn a lot.
1) Shocks and springs - good improvement, but not great. A lot less body roll, and more confidence in turns. I only dialed them up one click from my street setting. I guess I could have done more adjustments, but I just didn't want to mess with it. I wish I would have had the new sway bars to go with the other stuff. I would have dialed it all in - but without the sway bars - it's just not right. One thing I noticed was that I was able to carry just a little more speed through corners - enough to push me around in the seat and had me holding on to the steering wheel to keep myself upright.
2) I need a new seat. Thinking Kirkey here.
3) The new ball joints had the car nice and stable at high speed.
4) The engine sputtered a few times at the end of the front straight. I think it was fuel starved. Once I topped off the tank it was fine.
5) New brake pads - total failure IMHO. I'll keep the current pads on the car for street - but I'll make some phone calls to find some track pads. I had brake fade a few times at the end of the front straight - not good. If I can't work this out I'll get a big brake upgrade next year. A couple of times I did them lock up - and it was the rears that locked of first. So, I'll have to do some work here. I hope to find some track pads that will work with my current rotors.
6) You small block guys are going to love this --- I learned the advantage of a small block. On back straights (they're short) I was confidently running through 3rd gear and then shifting into 4th - only to have to shift down to 3rd again for the corner. This upsets the car. If I just had a couple thousand more RPMs I could keep the car in 3rd gear and fly around the corner. I tried leaving it in 4th around the corner - kinda useless. And running 3rd to the max is a bit dangerous on the engine. I'll have to talk to Tim about this.
7) If you want to go fast you need a Viper, Corvette, BMW, or Porsche. Those guys were flying around the track. The amount of speed they were able to carry through the corners was impressive. I was the almost slowest guy out there once again. An 18 year old with a stock 5.0 new GT Mustang passed me with an instructor on-board. I had passed him a few times before. A Subaru 4-door passed me every session. I was able to pass an old VW Scirocco a few times, but the field lapped me at least once every session. I need to learn so much more. Tim would have enjoyed the weekend. There was a pretty fast FFR running in the intermediate class.
So - I was trying to be smooth, but between getting thrown around the cockpit, brake fade, and totally wrong shifting - I just didn't get to make the progress I had hoped for. One a good note - I give excellent point-bys for passing. If there was an award for the most assertive and courteous point-bys - I would surely win a trophy.
The Superformance guys told me that the rear tires are 1/2" too wide for the car. They are 335 Hoosiers and I should have ordered 315s. So, anyway a SPF guy had made a body-mod to his car to accept the 335s and offered to buy them from me. Cool. That is unless anyone here wants them. Let me know.
So, I mounted on my street tires back on the car and decided to run the 3 afternoon sessions to learn a few things about my winter mods, and the track - and boy did I learn a lot.
1) Shocks and springs - good improvement, but not great. A lot less body roll, and more confidence in turns. I only dialed them up one click from my street setting. I guess I could have done more adjustments, but I just didn't want to mess with it. I wish I would have had the new sway bars to go with the other stuff. I would have dialed it all in - but without the sway bars - it's just not right. One thing I noticed was that I was able to carry just a little more speed through corners - enough to push me around in the seat and had me holding on to the steering wheel to keep myself upright.
2) I need a new seat. Thinking Kirkey here.
3) The new ball joints had the car nice and stable at high speed.
4) The engine sputtered a few times at the end of the front straight. I think it was fuel starved. Once I topped off the tank it was fine.
5) New brake pads - total failure IMHO. I'll keep the current pads on the car for street - but I'll make some phone calls to find some track pads. I had brake fade a few times at the end of the front straight - not good. If I can't work this out I'll get a big brake upgrade next year. A couple of times I did them lock up - and it was the rears that locked of first. So, I'll have to do some work here. I hope to find some track pads that will work with my current rotors.
6) You small block guys are going to love this --- I learned the advantage of a small block. On back straights (they're short) I was confidently running through 3rd gear and then shifting into 4th - only to have to shift down to 3rd again for the corner. This upsets the car. If I just had a couple thousand more RPMs I could keep the car in 3rd gear and fly around the corner. I tried leaving it in 4th around the corner - kinda useless. And running 3rd to the max is a bit dangerous on the engine. I'll have to talk to Tim about this.
7) If you want to go fast you need a Viper, Corvette, BMW, or Porsche. Those guys were flying around the track. The amount of speed they were able to carry through the corners was impressive. I was the almost slowest guy out there once again. An 18 year old with a stock 5.0 new GT Mustang passed me with an instructor on-board. I had passed him a few times before. A Subaru 4-door passed me every session. I was able to pass an old VW Scirocco a few times, but the field lapped me at least once every session. I need to learn so much more. Tim would have enjoyed the weekend. There was a pretty fast FFR running in the intermediate class.
So - I was trying to be smooth, but between getting thrown around the cockpit, brake fade, and totally wrong shifting - I just didn't get to make the progress I had hoped for. One a good note - I give excellent point-bys for passing. If there was an award for the most assertive and courteous point-bys - I would surely win a trophy.
Glad you had a good time. Once I finally get there you can give me some pointers on the point-bys as I'll be the new slowest guy on the track. 
We can talk more this weekend.
We can talk more this weekend.
Your top priority is this - stop worrying about how many and who passed you. Who cares!? Your main objective is to learn the lines of the track, make those, then worry about the setup of your car. Describe your brake fade......want to make sure we're on the same page. Seat, yes, that is a must before Hallett. Wish I would have been there, but had more important things to do.
Brake Fade - end of the straight stepping on the brake, get the initial bite but then the harder I press the car doesn't get any slower. In my head I say "well I'll step a little harder and lock them up - and since I'll be sliding - I might as well turn the wheel and try and make the corner.
Happened a few times. I did lock them up once, and the rears locked first.
So - brakes are an issue.
Going to get new pads that match.
Lines - I was getting it and did learn. But the constant struggle with the car and the point-bys took my head out of the game.
Happened a few times. I did lock them up once, and the rears locked first.
So - brakes are an issue.
Going to get new pads that match.
Lines - I was getting it and did learn. But the constant struggle with the car and the point-bys took my head out of the game.
Did the pedal feel hard? Did you bed the pads in? The Hawk pads are awesome, so I can't figure out why you were having trouble. How do they perform on the street? Did you use High Temp brake fluid? After how many laps did you notice this? I ran mismatched pads, and was fine, with the higher grip one's in the rear, but, our systems are different. Just a thought, but are you sure you weren't outgripping the tires? Were you Left foot braking by chance?
The shocks should have been an improvement over what you had. If you felt like it was the same with the street tires on, maybe it was since your limitations are the street tires. Hard to give much constructive feedback since I wasn't there, just trying to cover the bases with you.
The shocks should have been an improvement over what you had. If you felt like it was the same with the street tires on, maybe it was since your limitations are the street tires. Hard to give much constructive feedback since I wasn't there, just trying to cover the bases with you.
Pedal was excellent. Pads well bedded. DOT4 fluid. Street use fine. My problem came after a few laps. I think the BP20s from Wilwood are basically a street pad. And on the street, I'm not unhappy. Doing straight line braking at the track, but would like to evolve past that. I'm going to call Carbotech and see of their higher end pads will work okay with my rotors.
Shocks and springs were good, but would have been better with sway bars and adjustments. I didn't push the street tires as hard as I could (didn't get 'em chirpin) but I was still getting thrown around the cockpit. So, if that's a sign of better handling - that's good. I just need a new seat. Isn't that the thing with racing - improve one thing and find 2 more that need fixing. I checked the tire wear and there were those nice heat signatures right to the edge.
Still need to talk to you about shift points (and pointers that is). The small block guys missed that line above I guess.
Shocks and springs were good, but would have been better with sway bars and adjustments. I didn't push the street tires as hard as I could (didn't get 'em chirpin) but I was still getting thrown around the cockpit. So, if that's a sign of better handling - that's good. I just need a new seat. Isn't that the thing with racing - improve one thing and find 2 more that need fixing. I checked the tire wear and there were those nice heat signatures right to the edge.
Still need to talk to you about shift points (and pointers that is). The small block guys missed that line above I guess.
Didn't miss it Mark. As long as you know it, why beat a dead big block horse. I'm trying to be better about the HP and Size thing, but it's difficult. Plus I'm jealous that you get to at least push yourself and your car. You're learning and soon I hope to get pointers from all of you. First thing will be point bys.