States petition to secede....
- Thread starter Tim M
- Start date
Dear Lord please let this come to pass. I signed Missouri's.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...e-its-own-new-government/Vd92R3YG#thank-you=p
Steve
TOM KEISER
Member # 012
I signed the Missouri as well. Page 2 for anyone looking for it. Seems odd that so many solidly blue states have petitions as well. They put us here and shoud probably be disqualified. The smart people among them should be able to kick the dumb one's before they can take part. Nearly 12,000 signatures needed by 10 December - pass the word.
I signed too.
I'm outta here!
I'm outta here!
Kerry & Kathy
Member #007
Tried twice to create an account and when they supposedly sent a email to complete the process...no email was received.
Typical White house SNAFU.
Typical White house SNAFU.
- Thread starter
- #6
Ok, for dumb people like me, why would one sign this? I'm not understanding what is so bad....sorry, I'm not seeing why it's so bad.
Me too
I'm gonna side with Tim on this one. I understand the sour grapes on the election, but since it is over, aren't we better off to pull together as one and figure out how to make it work?
If the secession thing were to work, I would really be excited to see the new Missouri Air Force, and our Ambassador to the Fewer United States, and . . .
Oh, and the border crossing gates to get back into the other country.
The list of in-effective governing ability could be very long - and much more severe than what we are faced with.
Missouri can't agree between Kansas City, Saint Louis County and Saint Louis City. Our Cobra build licensing process is an example of how archaic our state government is. I'd hate to rely on them for some of the more critical stuff, like when Arkansas decides to invade Branson
Don't like the current administrations fiscal policy, but will learn how to make lemonade for my stand for the next four years.
The Republican party could do a better job of uniting a platform that would be more acceptable to the masses than what they've done the past 4+ years. The more radical they try to get, the more they will chase to the other party(ies)
That's it for my soapbox. Need to use it on my new lemonade stand.
Paul
I'm gonna side with Tim on this one. I understand the sour grapes on the election, but since it is over, aren't we better off to pull together as one and figure out how to make it work?
If the secession thing were to work, I would really be excited to see the new Missouri Air Force, and our Ambassador to the Fewer United States, and . . .
Oh, and the border crossing gates to get back into the other country.
The list of in-effective governing ability could be very long - and much more severe than what we are faced with.
Missouri can't agree between Kansas City, Saint Louis County and Saint Louis City. Our Cobra build licensing process is an example of how archaic our state government is. I'd hate to rely on them for some of the more critical stuff, like when Arkansas decides to invade Branson
Don't like the current administrations fiscal policy, but will learn how to make lemonade for my stand for the next four years.
The Republican party could do a better job of uniting a platform that would be more acceptable to the masses than what they've done the past 4+ years. The more radical they try to get, the more they will chase to the other party(ies)
That's it for my soapbox. Need to use it on my new lemonade stand.
Paul
X2 with Paul and Tim - but for different reasons.
The on-line petition has all the effectiveness of a fart in the wind - zero. It is not a constitutional right, nor is it legal in any way to secede from the union. That question was settled in 1865. It's simply not realistic to expect anything other than an IRS audit as an outcome to signing this petition.
On the question of "why" the republicans lost the election - I have the answer. It's simple, and is it NOT the reasons you have heard on the mainstream media (left or right). It's the very explanation I gave 4 years ago, and one party got it right and one did not. It has nothing to do with platforms, or old white men, war on women, latino voters, BenGazi, fiscal cliff, changing demographics, hurricanes, Israel, Libya, voter IDs, or any of the other messaging you have been subjected to. The answer is MATH. This election was won way back in March of 2012 and the Republicans simply never stood a chance - not with Romney, or Gingrich, or Ron Paul. Hell, they could have nominated Jesus Christ and still lost. The mathematicians made sure of it.
Bronco Bama's team used math to target very specific sections of the country to ensure an electoral win. I'll prove it. They were exacting and virtually perfect. No election in history has ever been won in this manner - and they executed it flawlessly. These are the brightest minds in the business, and Romney/Ryan never saw it coming.
1) Both parties realize that the country is basically about 49% red and 49% blue. It hasn't always been this way. But that's the way is has been for the last couple of nation wide elections. Therefore, to win an election the successful candidate must sell their message successfully to a very small percent of voters. This is key. In 2008, Bronco's team successfully used minority voters and young voters to fill in this gap. This was easily done since McCain was neither a minority nor young. And while some would say he was not the strongest candidate the Republicans could have fielded at the time - it didn't matter. The math was against him too. The democratic base combined with the new and additional voters (minority and young) were enough to push Bronco over the top. You want evidence? Take a look at both houses of Congress. Basically 50/50 just like the country 2008, 2010, and 2012.
2) The messaging both sides have spewed out during the last 4 years is all a distraction, a sideshow designed to keep you from looking at the actual facts. Chris Matthews, Sean Hannity, Rush, etc - do battle every day. But their message(s) are all contrived and have little to no barring on the election. Don't get me wrong, or misunderstand my point here. I agree with much of what the right wings says about various issues - socialist gubment, downfall of America, BenGazi coverup, and all other sorts of problems they discuss each day. And I firmly disagree with basically everything the left says - mostly name calling type stuff. Garbage and disgraceful. My point is that for all of the hot air these talking heads spew each day - they have little or no effect on an election. They are speaking to their base, not swaying any new voters and thus the effect they have on the MATH of the election is virtually zero. Evidence? The pollsters. All highly skilled, scientifically charged - yet 2 different projections. How can that be? The fact is none of the media is neither fair or balanced. They have their agenda and fight everyday to support it. If you want to go around spouting right-wing talking points - that's fine. And, while I would agree with you on most of your points - none and I mean zero of your points no longer have any barring on an election. Not anymore. The country is 50/50, it's going to stay that way for quite some time.
3) The percentage of actual voters. This has a moderate effect (but not huge effect) on winners and losers in an election. Romney received fewer votes than McCain in 2008. That's bad folks. Real Bad. But it's not because of changing demographics like you have heard in the media. Republicans simply didn't vote. They stayed home. Just enough conservatives stayed home this time to have a slight effect. Some have said they were the Ron Paul voters or other libertarian types that opted out. Still others have said that Romney failed to make any gains with the Reagan Democrats. Either way you slice it, enough like minded folks stayed home. Proof? Again - look at Congress. The same 50/50 gridlock. No big shift, no huge mandate - just the same as before. You might be mad at somebody who voted for Bronco - but you should be even more mad at someone who didn't vote at all. In fact, for the democrats this was an unexpected, but very pleasant surprise.
THE BIG POINT
4) While Romney was targeting States in an effort to get an electoral win, Bronco's team was micromanaging each ward and county in the country. The ground game as it has been called. The Chicago Machine identified specific wards, counties, and districts in each state that were deemed winnable. They identified the demographics in those very specific areas and then began quietly targeting ads in specific ways to those areas. They used the science of statistics, math, and modern demographic data points to target the exact wards they needed to win a state. They applied that method to enough states to mathematically guarantee a win - no matter what. Proof? Have you seen the county-by-county 2012 election map of the US? That's the one with all the red everywhere, and the smattering of blue sections peppered around the country. That's not by accident. It's it far too simplistic to say that it's just because it's an urban (black) area. Face it. It's calculated - it's well executed Math. Further proof? We all came to the understanding that Ohio, or Florida, or even Missouri were battleground states. In reality, if Romney had won Florida and Ohio, Bronco would have still won the election. The battle was being fought block-by-block. Very precisely, very quietly.
Why do you think that Bronco had such a swagger during the campaign? He coasted through the debates, even did poorly by most standards. His events were not the same as the 2008 events with the huge audiences. His speeches were lackluster by modern standards, and his handling of various and supposed crisis was well inattentive at best. It was easy to suggest that he was the worst president ever, or corrupt - or both. But in reality, whether you believe those things or not - HE knew he had already won the election. He knew it by early summer. The math was never in doubt.
All of the other issues you wish to discuss are fine. You want to talk about the sad state of affairs, various scandals, the fiscal cliff, gun-running, cafeteria lunches, socialism, foreign affairs - whatever. But, don't confuse those "issues" with an election anymore. The election of 2012 was a historical, calculated, mathematical, scientifically charged process with the precision of a laser guided smart-bomb. Karl Rove spent 300 large and it didn't matter. As a party, the Republicans got blind sided by this in 2008 - and simply didn't learn their lesson. The Republicans never stood a chance. They never knew what hit them. It was the ultimate rope-a-dope.
If you want to be mad about something - be mad that the Republicans could not win an election that was easily winnable - had they done their homework.
The on-line petition has all the effectiveness of a fart in the wind - zero. It is not a constitutional right, nor is it legal in any way to secede from the union. That question was settled in 1865. It's simply not realistic to expect anything other than an IRS audit as an outcome to signing this petition.
On the question of "why" the republicans lost the election - I have the answer. It's simple, and is it NOT the reasons you have heard on the mainstream media (left or right). It's the very explanation I gave 4 years ago, and one party got it right and one did not. It has nothing to do with platforms, or old white men, war on women, latino voters, BenGazi, fiscal cliff, changing demographics, hurricanes, Israel, Libya, voter IDs, or any of the other messaging you have been subjected to. The answer is MATH. This election was won way back in March of 2012 and the Republicans simply never stood a chance - not with Romney, or Gingrich, or Ron Paul. Hell, they could have nominated Jesus Christ and still lost. The mathematicians made sure of it.
Bronco Bama's team used math to target very specific sections of the country to ensure an electoral win. I'll prove it. They were exacting and virtually perfect. No election in history has ever been won in this manner - and they executed it flawlessly. These are the brightest minds in the business, and Romney/Ryan never saw it coming.
1) Both parties realize that the country is basically about 49% red and 49% blue. It hasn't always been this way. But that's the way is has been for the last couple of nation wide elections. Therefore, to win an election the successful candidate must sell their message successfully to a very small percent of voters. This is key. In 2008, Bronco's team successfully used minority voters and young voters to fill in this gap. This was easily done since McCain was neither a minority nor young. And while some would say he was not the strongest candidate the Republicans could have fielded at the time - it didn't matter. The math was against him too. The democratic base combined with the new and additional voters (minority and young) were enough to push Bronco over the top. You want evidence? Take a look at both houses of Congress. Basically 50/50 just like the country 2008, 2010, and 2012.
2) The messaging both sides have spewed out during the last 4 years is all a distraction, a sideshow designed to keep you from looking at the actual facts. Chris Matthews, Sean Hannity, Rush, etc - do battle every day. But their message(s) are all contrived and have little to no barring on the election. Don't get me wrong, or misunderstand my point here. I agree with much of what the right wings says about various issues - socialist gubment, downfall of America, BenGazi coverup, and all other sorts of problems they discuss each day. And I firmly disagree with basically everything the left says - mostly name calling type stuff. Garbage and disgraceful. My point is that for all of the hot air these talking heads spew each day - they have little or no effect on an election. They are speaking to their base, not swaying any new voters and thus the effect they have on the MATH of the election is virtually zero. Evidence? The pollsters. All highly skilled, scientifically charged - yet 2 different projections. How can that be? The fact is none of the media is neither fair or balanced. They have their agenda and fight everyday to support it. If you want to go around spouting right-wing talking points - that's fine. And, while I would agree with you on most of your points - none and I mean zero of your points no longer have any barring on an election. Not anymore. The country is 50/50, it's going to stay that way for quite some time.
3) The percentage of actual voters. This has a moderate effect (but not huge effect) on winners and losers in an election. Romney received fewer votes than McCain in 2008. That's bad folks. Real Bad. But it's not because of changing demographics like you have heard in the media. Republicans simply didn't vote. They stayed home. Just enough conservatives stayed home this time to have a slight effect. Some have said they were the Ron Paul voters or other libertarian types that opted out. Still others have said that Romney failed to make any gains with the Reagan Democrats. Either way you slice it, enough like minded folks stayed home. Proof? Again - look at Congress. The same 50/50 gridlock. No big shift, no huge mandate - just the same as before. You might be mad at somebody who voted for Bronco - but you should be even more mad at someone who didn't vote at all. In fact, for the democrats this was an unexpected, but very pleasant surprise.
THE BIG POINT
4) While Romney was targeting States in an effort to get an electoral win, Bronco's team was micromanaging each ward and county in the country. The ground game as it has been called. The Chicago Machine identified specific wards, counties, and districts in each state that were deemed winnable. They identified the demographics in those very specific areas and then began quietly targeting ads in specific ways to those areas. They used the science of statistics, math, and modern demographic data points to target the exact wards they needed to win a state. They applied that method to enough states to mathematically guarantee a win - no matter what. Proof? Have you seen the county-by-county 2012 election map of the US? That's the one with all the red everywhere, and the smattering of blue sections peppered around the country. That's not by accident. It's it far too simplistic to say that it's just because it's an urban (black) area. Face it. It's calculated - it's well executed Math. Further proof? We all came to the understanding that Ohio, or Florida, or even Missouri were battleground states. In reality, if Romney had won Florida and Ohio, Bronco would have still won the election. The battle was being fought block-by-block. Very precisely, very quietly.
Why do you think that Bronco had such a swagger during the campaign? He coasted through the debates, even did poorly by most standards. His events were not the same as the 2008 events with the huge audiences. His speeches were lackluster by modern standards, and his handling of various and supposed crisis was well inattentive at best. It was easy to suggest that he was the worst president ever, or corrupt - or both. But in reality, whether you believe those things or not - HE knew he had already won the election. He knew it by early summer. The math was never in doubt.
All of the other issues you wish to discuss are fine. You want to talk about the sad state of affairs, various scandals, the fiscal cliff, gun-running, cafeteria lunches, socialism, foreign affairs - whatever. But, don't confuse those "issues" with an election anymore. The election of 2012 was a historical, calculated, mathematical, scientifically charged process with the precision of a laser guided smart-bomb. Karl Rove spent 300 large and it didn't matter. As a party, the Republicans got blind sided by this in 2008 - and simply didn't learn their lesson. The Republicans never stood a chance. They never knew what hit them. It was the ultimate rope-a-dope.
If you want to be mad about something - be mad that the Republicans could not win an election that was easily winnable - had they done their homework.
We get the government that we deserve - and that is the problem.
50% of the voting population believes that -
If I don't pay for their abortion and birth control, I hate woman.
It's OK for the government to buy private companies using taxpayer money and then turn that company over to the union.
Printing cargo shiploads of money has no consequence.
man-made global warming is a fact.
giving taxpayer money to "green" companies that go bankrupt six weeks later is good economic policy.
that affirmative action is not racist.
that people making $250,000 a year are millionaires.
that two gays raising a kid is just as healthy as a man and a woman.
that 2 years of unemployment benefits, social security and Medicare are part of their "rights".
We have not lived in a free country since Lincoln declared war on the people of the South. It was made worse when the income tax was introduced and politicians could dole out favors to the morons that make up the US populace.
I am a slave to the 47%. I can't buy the light bulbs I want; the toilet I want; the car I want; I must subsidize activities by the government that are not mentioned in the Constitution.
We are screwed.
Steve
50% of the voting population believes that -
If I don't pay for their abortion and birth control, I hate woman.
It's OK for the government to buy private companies using taxpayer money and then turn that company over to the union.
Printing cargo shiploads of money has no consequence.
man-made global warming is a fact.
giving taxpayer money to "green" companies that go bankrupt six weeks later is good economic policy.
that affirmative action is not racist.
that people making $250,000 a year are millionaires.
that two gays raising a kid is just as healthy as a man and a woman.
that 2 years of unemployment benefits, social security and Medicare are part of their "rights".
We have not lived in a free country since Lincoln declared war on the people of the South. It was made worse when the income tax was introduced and politicians could dole out favors to the morons that make up the US populace.
I am a slave to the 47%. I can't buy the light bulbs I want; the toilet I want; the car I want; I must subsidize activities by the government that are not mentioned in the Constitution.
We are screwed.
Steve
- Thread starter
- #10
So if it's that bad, why not move out of this country? Seems like a simple solution to me. Not sure where you are shopping at, but I buy the car I want, toilet I want, food I want and I can go where I want when I want to. Will all of this go away someday....not sure....not in my lifetime as I see it. I'm a fact based logical person. If you can present a fact as to why you can't go buy the car you want, let me see it. Really, you're worried about how your shi$ goes down a drain? 
Why does that matter? Light bulbs....well, I agree with you there.
I also don't watch enough politics to understand or make a judgement on how good Obama's speeches were/are. Really? You KNOW the difference in a speech he made in October 2012 compared to October 2008? Really? To keep my opinion simple, I see it this way - the republicans threw out a polished candidate that no one liked after Gov. Christie declined. Romney wasn't likable and couldn't overcome his complete disconnect with the common person. I will say that the 50/50 division is still race based. Much of my family from the South is against this 'Black person' being in office. Many friends from the South feel the same way. Their judgment, although misguided, is based on color.
My problem with Obama is his handling of the budget, job creation, job elimination (e.g. Westinghouse), letting trade with countries providing an inferior product run good American business out of business (not all his fault, mostly due to the disposable society we live in), his lack of involvement in truly understanding the issues in the middle east (continuing to have soldiers in a country where they have fought for hundreds of years, let's get out of there, guard our borders better and let them fight amongst themselves like they have in the name of allah for hundreds if not thousands of years), and then there is obamacare. Even though this currently benefits me and my family by covering my oldest son still with insurance, I don't agree with taking away the choice to get the insurance you want.
All of this is my opinion based on what little knowledge I have of politics. So is it more dangerous to have people like me vote or people that vote based on what they don't know? So, how does it get fixed? How does a trillion dollar deficit get balanced? How do we get better candidates?
Why does that matter? Light bulbs....well, I agree with you there. I also don't watch enough politics to understand or make a judgement on how good Obama's speeches were/are. Really? You KNOW the difference in a speech he made in October 2012 compared to October 2008? Really? To keep my opinion simple, I see it this way - the republicans threw out a polished candidate that no one liked after Gov. Christie declined. Romney wasn't likable and couldn't overcome his complete disconnect with the common person. I will say that the 50/50 division is still race based. Much of my family from the South is against this 'Black person' being in office. Many friends from the South feel the same way. Their judgment, although misguided, is based on color.
My problem with Obama is his handling of the budget, job creation, job elimination (e.g. Westinghouse), letting trade with countries providing an inferior product run good American business out of business (not all his fault, mostly due to the disposable society we live in), his lack of involvement in truly understanding the issues in the middle east (continuing to have soldiers in a country where they have fought for hundreds of years, let's get out of there, guard our borders better and let them fight amongst themselves like they have in the name of allah for hundreds if not thousands of years), and then there is obamacare. Even though this currently benefits me and my family by covering my oldest son still with insurance, I don't agree with taking away the choice to get the insurance you want. All of this is my opinion based on what little knowledge I have of politics. So is it more dangerous to have people like me vote or people that vote based on what they don't know? So, how does it get fixed? How does a trillion dollar deficit get balanced? How do we get better candidates?
So if it's that bad, why not move out of this country?
Answer: How about the liberals leave instead?
Not sure where you are shopping at, but I buy the car I want, toilet I want, food I want and I can go where I want when I want to.
Answer: No you don't. Your toilet is limited to 1.6 gallons. Your shower heads are limited in flow. Your car must have airbags, etc.
Their judgment, although misguided, is based on color. My problem with Obama is his handling of the budget, job creation, job elimination...
Answer: Agreed
..., and then there is obamacare. Even though this currently benefits me and my family by covering my oldest son still with insurance, I don't agree with taking away the choice to get the insurance you want.
Answer: The idea that a 26 year old needs to be on their parent's insurance plan is just another example of encouraging the dependent class.
Steve
Answer: How about the liberals leave instead?
Not sure where you are shopping at, but I buy the car I want, toilet I want, food I want and I can go where I want when I want to.
Answer: No you don't. Your toilet is limited to 1.6 gallons. Your shower heads are limited in flow. Your car must have airbags, etc.
Their judgment, although misguided, is based on color.
My problem with Obama is his handling of the budget, job creation, job elimination...Answer: Agreed
..., and then there is obamacare. Even though this currently benefits me and my family by covering my oldest son still with insurance, I don't agree with taking away the choice to get the insurance you want.
Answer: The idea that a 26 year old needs to be on their parent's insurance plan is just another example of encouraging the dependent class.
Steve
..., and then there is obamacare. Even though this currently benefits me and my family by covering my oldest son still with insurance, I don't agree with taking away the choice to get the insurance you want.
Just another example of NO GOOD JOB for younger kids If this problem would get solved most everything else would thke care of itself. IMHO
Rick
Just another example of NO GOOD JOB for younger kids If this problem would get solved most everything else would thke care of itself. IMHO
Rick
Just another example of NO GOOD JOB for younger kids If this problem would get solved most everything else would the care of itself. IMHO
Rick
Rick:
Yep. Get rid of the illegals and kids can mow grass like any number of us did. Or they can go to work for McDonalds, like I did.
And then we can get this idiotic idea that every kid is college material out of our heads. There's a reason people work on assembly lines and dig ditches. They just aren't that bright. I realize that intelligence is just luck of the draw but face it - at least 50% of the kids in college come out no smarter than when they went in.
The outsourcing of manual labor is the primary cause of the demise of the middle class. Those folks that can't make change without a calculator have to either have a place to work at their level or they become dependent on the state.
Steve