So you think you are getting cheap produce

A Snake

Member #024
Location (City)
McLeansboro, Il
First Name
Mike
Last Name
Woley
THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.

This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet..

Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

CHEAP TOMATOES?

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent

From a California school teacher - - -

"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight.. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls(some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America .

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students, here in the country less than 3 months, who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" (whores ) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less f or tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc.., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

Americans, We need to wake up.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an American third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried aboutpolitical correctness " that we don't have the will to do anything about it. <

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheaplabor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled , they qualify for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify forMedicare . All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!

THESE ARE THE QUESTION S WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'

THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE
 
While I understand this thread unfortunately it is not reality. I will give you a real world example right here in Stl. When I had my business approximately 50% of my employees were Mexican. I was told by INS that all the paperwork I requested was correct and as far as I knew all my workers were legal, BUT in actuallity don't ask any more questions because they probably were not legal!

I paid a fair, living wage for laborers. I paid insurance and other fringe benefits. My mexican workers lived close to each other, helped each other and sent money home to there families would could not come to America. The $400 they sent each month allowed their whole family to live like kings and queens. They worked harder and longer hours than any "American" worker I had.

I was told my one worker, "I hate working with people born in America. They don't understand the gift they have. I own a home, a car and my daughter can get an education. In my home town the police have machine guns. I hear all the time about how they should not have to work this hard or they don't get paid enough, instead of getting the job done."

I found out later this worker was illegal! I asked him about it, he told me, "I pay taxes, but I will never get anything. I cannot request anything from the government, healthcare, SSI or anything else because I will get deported. That is ok, because I can work forever and be happy with the money I get on my paycheck."

I ask you, how many "Americans" have this attitude? This man's dream was to become a US citizen but he couldn't. His visa expired in the 80s and he was waiting for amnesty.

I kept putting Americans in quotes because to me this man embodied the American spirit that is abused daily by those that have no idea how good they have it. ALL of my Mexican workers were the same way. They would do anything for me as their boss and I would do anything for them because of their loyalty!

Sorry to say, but that is the truth.
 
Brandon,

I appreciate your candor and balanced viewpoint of a serious problem.

In late 72 and early 73 I lived on an almond ranch in Reedley CA owned by the father of my best friend who served with me in Vietnam. I saw numerous examples of what you describe. Don's father Jack employed a number of Mexicans who kept a low profile, worked all day for low wages, and were happy to earn it. They put in more than a full day and were willing to do any job Jack asked of them. The work was always done promptly and done well. They would also police themselves if one tried to slack off to insure the slacker didn't create a problem for the rest. Jack treated them well...and they respected him for it.

However I was also there when Cesar Chavez and one of his strong arm union thugs named Hicks was forcing all migrant workers to unionize. He sent out small groups of enforcers on flat bed trucks who would poor into the almond or orange groves and beat any migrant who would not join the union. The ones not beaten were intimidated. Some migrants left to other states where there was less political union pressure. Others joined. Some went home.

Many of the growers including neighbor's of Jack's had complete Mexican families that they housed on their property and the working relationship was much as you described. The growers were fair and honest with them and the Mexicans were very loyal and appreciative of the opportunity to work. But Chavez changed all that. There were confrontations, brawls and shootings reminiscent of the old south. Ultimately Chavez was successful and the demands of the union hurt both workers and growers alike. Today Chavez is held up as a hero....but ask a worker in the field what they thought of Chavez in the 70's.

I went back to Reedley Ca in 2005 and it was a totally different place. It is no longer safe to be alone at night in any of the Chicano neighborhoods due to the gangs that now dominate Fresno. In 1973 we could go into any Chicano bar and have a good time with guys we knew who worked in the groves. Not any more.... Today it looks like going into Juarez at night and just as dangerous for any non Hispanic.

Brandon, I understand your feelings and shared them at one time. But the changes that occurred in California are changes that will occur here in time if left unchecked. We are simply 15 or more years behind. I would like to believe that the relationship you enjoyed with your men will be typical of how most will assimilate into American culture. But based on what has occurred in California I'm afraid it's just a prequel for what will happen here.

Kerry
 
I appreciate the comments. I totally agree. My comments were not meant as much for the immigrants but the others around them. I will put it this way....The worker I mentioned is now in his late 40s. He owns a home and his kids go to school in St. Charles. His wife now has her own business. Compare that to a 30 year old High School Dropout. He lives in IL. My mexican worker was there 15 minutes before he was to clock in and he stayed to finish the job. My IL worker would show up right on time or push as far as he could to be late but not in trouble. At the end of the day he would leave because baby's mamma has community college classes(federal aid) and he has to watch the kids. Couple from them together and a couple from previous relationships. He would not get married because the public aid was better as long as they were not married. ALWAYS issues, neighbor's Ol man is locked up, Suzie the other neighbor is on drugs, etc......

MY problem is simple the problem you describe is very complex. I need a worker, one is pleased as punch to work, the other believes he is entitled to better pay and more benefits because he is not Mexican. Who do you hire??? That is why I said MY problem is simple. The larger problem is much worse. IMO it is born and raised American citizens that need to wake up. If you don't bust your butt, learn a trade, go to school, etc. You don't DESERVE S$%T! I owe you nothing! As Snake said in an earlier post, I have made a ton, I have had nothing. I like having my things. I work for what I have period. Unfortunately, for our under-educated population the Mexicans and Boznians will work circles around the people that think they deserve the work.

I just wanted to bring the original post closer to home. This problem is not as simple as build a fence. Jobs need to be done and they will go to those who will work. Will you dig ditches to feed your family? I bet you would. Try to hire someone under 40 that will. It is much easier to get breast fed from Uncle Sam for those people.
 
We agree on most points.

In some respects I think we incorrectly lump a generational problem under the heading of a immigrant problem. They are separate yet similar.

On one hand you have a generation of immigrants from Mexico, Bosnia, or Pakistan who are willing to work as hard as our parent's generation to achieve their American dream. However younger generation Americans...kids of the Baby Boomer's, are much less inclined to work as hard as their parents to get what they want in life. For them life has been mistakenly handed to them on platter by parents wanting to insure a better life for their kids. While denying them a necessary work ethic in the process. Unfortunately we ended up with a generation with little appreciation for what they have....looking for the easy out and quick fix. They never learned the benefits of hard work and investing personal effort for a better outcome.

Contrast that with young immigrants who are willing to take the jobs an American teenager walks away from as being "beneath him". The fact that these jobs are being lost to an illegal alien is only half the problem. The other half is a generation of kids who expect nothing less than the best...solely for being born in America.

You're right...it is a complex issue with no wholesale solutions.

Having said that...I still have yet to understand why an illegal immigrant will live years under the radar or "wait for amnesty" rather than make the effort to legally become an American citizen. No one yet has provided a logical explanation why a legal path to citizenship is so rarely pursed today by those claiming to have an "American Dream". How does a hard working and motivated illegal not see the benefit?

Kerry
 
Now...this is what the Paddock is all about...sensible pro's & con's
Oh by the way...I love to stir the pot if you had noticed.
Thanks for your input.
The industry I am involved with uses a lot of Mexican labor (mostly in larger cities) I have had a few work for me. For the most part they were not good workers. I had a Mexican gentleman explain to me that it depends on the family or "clan" as he put it. theINS has been coming down on them big time with some "time" being issued to upper management for using illegals...they were trucking them in and providing them with phony papers. This what we don't need.
Our system is being over burdoned by the illegals. As long as employers hire them we will never get out this situation.
As Kerry said, it has changed and not for the better.
 
This problem is not as simple as build a fence.

Actually it requires pill boxes every 1000 yards with a 100 yd no mans zone along the southern border. The first 100 dead bodies will shut illegal immigration down.

We are being invaded. No matter how good intentioned or well meaning these people are, they are still entering the country illegally. As a rule, they have no interest in learning our language or integrating into the culture. When combined with the fact that our politicians are only interested in votes and not the security of our country, we're headed towards becoming a Mexican territory.

If they want in they have to stand in line.

Steve
 
I've got this solved. It's a 3D solution to a 2D problem. It's so simple it will make your head spin.

1) Build a wall. Big and tall, wide and long. Leave the electronics (cameras, etc) at home, leave the pill boxes for the real enemies. Make the wall across every inch of the border to the south and the north. Any state border that is not connected to another state will have some sort of provision of protection.

2) All the "illegals" that are here now - can stay - with a clear path to citizenship. But, this is not the path that was in the news a couple of years ago. And this path won't be nearly as easy. They will be issued "assimilation visas".

3) Allow only a pre-determined number of "assimilation visas" each year for new immigrants. Not a restrictive amount, but not a deluge either.

4) The path to citizenship. Once an individual is issued an assimilation visa they are on a 4 year track to obtain full citizenship. Once they complete this 4 year program, they will take the Oath of Citizenship, Pledge of Allegiance, and can vote. We can call these pre-citizens - newbies. Each newbie will receive 8 weeks of financial support to be directly deposited in a US Bank on a weekly basis. This will be the only form of assistance available for newbies.

To obtain full citizenship the following objectives must be completed:

A) Complete 2 years of study in American History and English - at your own expense.

B) Do not get convicted of any crime greater than a speeding ticket.

C) Perform 10 hours a week of community service. This service can include the following tasks: teaching other immigrants, working for 10 hours of extra time on any job, working in a hospital, working for any group or organization not affiliated with governmental operations, work on the border.

D) Obtain full time employment (30+ hours a week) with direct deposit paychecks in a US bank.

E) Pay all taxes.

F) Schedule and maintain regular contact with an assimilation officer or coordinator.

Any newbie can opt out of steps C & D ONLY if they
1) Join any branch of the armed services.
2) Enroll in a university at their own expense or by grant.
3) Obtain employment within the INS - yes the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

Now, here is the golden ring.
Every newbie can become an instant citizen and receive a $10,000 bonus check if they catch, kill, or turn in any person attempting to cross the border illegally, is here illegally, or aids in the conviction of any other newbie attempting to break any of the above mentioned rules.

Problem solved. Constitution intact.

You should hear how I can solve crime, education, gun violence, gangs, and drugs - just as quickly - just a legal. That one will set you on your heals.
 
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Man when Mark finds a topic and jumps on the soapbox wow...just wow...In all seriousness I am having a lot of fun with this thread. It has become a debate and a conversation, not an F U your wrong...thread. I really like that.

I guess I have taken the side of the exception to the rule. I was a very lucky employer. This man I am speaking of and I had a lot of conversations after I found out he was illegal. His answer was simple, but sad. He wanted to be an American citizen. He came to the US in 1982. His Visa expired. At the time it expired he had to make a choice, return to Mexico and hope to be allowed to come back or stay and live the American dream. Now he is in a bad spot. If he tries to become a US citizen he has to come forward and be deported never allowed to return. His kids were born in the US so they are citizens. He hopes for amnesty so he can stay legally. I had another employee deported for a DUI. He was marked never to return. He was in my warehouse 6 months later, I looked at him and yelled his name. His response was, "No Me amo(sp?) not Juan, it is Bill Smith." PROBLEM!!!!

Kerry, you and I are closer on our views here than you think. You have changes my thoughts based on generations, but you also understand the difficulty that employers have with this issue.

Snake, stir the pot. That is what the paddock is all about. If you can't take the comments don't open the thread! If you can discuss and debate, fire away you may just get your mind changed! I just ask that you deal with my typos. I haven't figured out how to use spell check in the forum:eek:
 
I just ask that you deal with my typos. I haven't figured out how to use spell check in the forum:eek:

Brandon....

Do I have a spell check program for you....!!

It's easy, it's quick and it's effective...I can't compose any email or document without it.
It's called "ispell" and you are only one right click away from using it in ANY application.
It is SWEET....and it's FREE.

Go here to download:

http://www.iespell.com/download.php

You can thank me later........:D

Kerry
 
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