Missouri CCW list shared with Federal Govt

So for the dumb people like me....why is this an issue? The Federal Government already has your name and info from when you bought the gun, right? So, if you are now a registered to carry a concealed weapon, why wouldn't the Feds need to know this? I know, it's a privacy thing, but is it more than that?
 
Not Dumb Tim. It just doesn't hit close to home for you.
I have my CCW and yeah it is a big deal to me. Typically when you get the background check, that's all it is. The information about what guns everyone purchases and such is not kept. The info is supposed to be destroyed. It is kept by the dealer, but not centralized by the goverment. There are specific laws against that thing. The police are allowed to query the DMV for the individuals for traffic stops and such, but are not supposed to have access to the whole list. Throughout history, when one side has a compiled list of people who don't think or follow the same dictates as that other side, then the information is power. It's happened on both sides of the coin. In multiple other countries throughout history these lists have been used for anything from seizures of land or property to outright murders. Ask the bolsheviks in Russia with weapons. Oh that's right, you can't because they were rounded up based on a list and killed. And before you say, "it can't happen here" , that's what they thought too.

There are checks and balances in our system and privacy laws which stem from these vary events in history. People should be aware is all. Some of these very arguments are in the article too.
 
Last edited:
Purple Venom said:
So for the dumb people like me....why is this an issue? The Federal Government already has your name and info from when you bought the gun, right? So, if you are now a registered to carry a concealed weapon, why wouldn't the Feds need to know this? I know, it's a privacy thing, but is it more than that?
Click to expand...

First..it's an issue because the MO department of Revenue and MO Hwy Patrol broke state law. When CCW laws were first enacted the supporters wanted to be certain that CCW records could not be accessed by federal agencies that did not have a specific law enforcement need for those records. In those cases it required a written request to provide a record of what department requested this information and why. This insured that whatever information was disseminated, there was a record of why and to whom. None of this was done. That is why these two incidents in Nov 2012 and Jan 2013 became issues. Private personal CCW information was provided to a non law enforcement agency ( The Social Security Administration) after an apparent phone call, without following required Missouri statutes.

Second...when you buy a firearm the ATF does not have an electronic or paper record of what firearm you purchased. When a call is made by the dealer to ATF to gain authorization for your purchase they only know the type of firearm being purchased. i.e. long gun, handgun or "other" (which generally includes parts such as stripped lower receivers). At the time of your purchase ATF does not have a record of the model, make, caliber or serial number of what you are buying. That information is only on the form 4473 you fill out at the dealer. The dealer is required to keep this information in his bound book... but is not required to provide this information to the ATF... unless an ATF agent calls while tracking a specific firearm serial number used in a crime, or during a dealer routine compliance inspection where an ATF agent can review...but NOT COPY...the bound book records. If they do...they are breaking federal law.

As a result...the ATF does not have a real time record of what firearms you buy... and as such cannot compile a database of every firearm a civilian owns.

The one exception is that when a dealer goes out of business, he is required to send his bound book original records to the ATF. The ATF places those records in an archive where they can be used as reference in tracking a weapon later...but current federal law prevents them from placing these bound book records in any national database.

In the case of firearm sales by federally licensed Curio and Relic Firearm Collectors....when they terminate their collecting activities, their bound books of all firearm transactions are NOT required to be sent to the ATF at all. Those transactions are never even seen by the ATF...unless during a very rare compliance inspection of a collector's premises.

Having said that...the ATF has been suspected of illegally compiling bound book records they have received... in contradiction to current federal law.
 
Thank you for the explanations. When I bought my last shotgun at Cabela's, it was all done online without any paper at all. The form I completed had the type, model and serial number all listed, as I recall. Now, where that form was submitted to, I don't know, but, it hit cyberspace which means it's probably on someone's database somewhere.

Ya'll I'm sure have guess it, I will be one of those people in the streets yelling it can't happen here. At least, not in my lifetime, I used to think. But recent events have really opened my eyes and I learn/change as these things happen. I guess you have been seeing this for some time and preparing for it. I prepare for the worst normally, just haven't seen the worst coming yet. So, the more dumb questions I ask, the more I learn from you :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top