4.29.09
Tomorrow GM will announce the end of Pontiac as well as various plant closings.
Tomorrow GM will announce the end of Pontiac as well as various plant closings.
In The News
- Thread starter STL Mark
- Start date
- Staff
- #2
Short lived G8 had such promise. Maybe they will carry over the power plant to the impala or malibu. So, to compare and why GM is in trouble:
List of GM brands:
* Buick
* Cadillac
* Chevrolet
* Daewoo
* GMC
* Holden
* Hummer
* Opel
* Pontiac
* Saab
* Saturn
* Vauxhall
That's 12 brands.
Chrysler has:
* Chrysler
* Dodge
* Jeep
Ford has:
* Ford
* Lincoln
* Mercury
* Volvo
* Troller
Not listing the foriegn makes here, but even if I do, GM has the most at 12 divisions. I remember the days when riding down the highway in the back seat, I could identify the oncoming cars by their grills. Way too many models now. And what has never made sense to me is why have the same automobile with different badging like Cadillac Escalade and Chevy Avalanche.
It seems to me they should keep producing Cadillac's, Chevrolet's, and Saturn. Pontiac, Buick & Hummer should go. Just as many banks and lenders assumed bad debt, so did GM, Daewoo?!?
List of GM brands:
* Buick
* Cadillac
* Chevrolet
* Daewoo
* GMC
* Holden
* Hummer
* Opel
* Pontiac
* Saab
* Saturn
* Vauxhall
That's 12 brands.
Chrysler has:
* Chrysler
* Dodge
* Jeep
Ford has:
* Ford
* Lincoln
* Mercury
* Volvo
* Troller
Not listing the foriegn makes here, but even if I do, GM has the most at 12 divisions. I remember the days when riding down the highway in the back seat, I could identify the oncoming cars by their grills. Way too many models now. And what has never made sense to me is why have the same automobile with different badging like Cadillac Escalade and Chevy Avalanche.
It seems to me they should keep producing Cadillac's, Chevrolet's, and Saturn. Pontiac, Buick & Hummer should go. Just as many banks and lenders assumed bad debt, so did GM, Daewoo?!?
- Thread starter
- #3
One word answer - MARKETING.
Take the same truck, apply different badging and doodads and charge an extra 30K !
We paid the price - Escalades were big sellers.
Take Pontiac or Saturn as an example. The brand lost it's flair, it's uniqueness due the swirl of GM engineering and design. Meaning they're all basically the same - with different badging and a few design tweeks. To date, marketing as been able to keep those marques alive - but the public just isn't buying the hype anymore. A Soltice is tha same as a Sky, a G8 is the same as an Impala with a V8, an Enclave is the same as a Acadia is the same as a Tranverse, is the same as a Vue. They've been playing these games since the late 60's and it just doesn't make sense anymore.
That's why Hummer and Saturn were such big sellers (when they started out) - because they were completely different and original and innovative.
Take the same truck, apply different badging and doodads and charge an extra 30K !
We paid the price - Escalades were big sellers.
Take Pontiac or Saturn as an example. The brand lost it's flair, it's uniqueness due the swirl of GM engineering and design. Meaning they're all basically the same - with different badging and a few design tweeks. To date, marketing as been able to keep those marques alive - but the public just isn't buying the hype anymore. A Soltice is tha same as a Sky, a G8 is the same as an Impala with a V8, an Enclave is the same as a Acadia is the same as a Tranverse, is the same as a Vue. They've been playing these games since the late 60's and it just doesn't make sense anymore.
That's why Hummer and Saturn were such big sellers (when they started out) - because they were completely different and original and innovative.
- Thread starter
- #4
Also in the news Chrysler and Fiat will reach agreement.
So, let me get this straight. The hedge fund and financial SOBs that got us into this mess own Chrysler. They didn't put any of their money at stake in Chrysler so they didn't loose anything. They did take bailout money - so they are in great shape. But they going to sell to Fiat - there's an awe inspiring marque.
Then they'll tell us to buy American - WTF? And a good portion of our money will go to Italy, and the hedge fund scum that started all of this.
Oh and the 2 plants in STL will close forever - because they can make those vehicles cheaper in Canada.
Change I can believe in !
So, let me get this straight. The hedge fund and financial SOBs that got us into this mess own Chrysler. They didn't put any of their money at stake in Chrysler so they didn't loose anything. They did take bailout money - so they are in great shape. But they going to sell to Fiat - there's an awe inspiring marque.
Then they'll tell us to buy American - WTF? And a good portion of our money will go to Italy, and the hedge fund scum that started all of this.
Oh and the 2 plants in STL will close forever - because they can make those vehicles cheaper in Canada.
Change I can believe in !
- Staff
- #5
Maybe if our Prez and military would stop wasting fuel buzzing the statue of liberty for a "photo op", the DJIA wouldn't take a nose dive, people wouldn't evacuate buildings (losing time at work), and some taxpayer money could be saved. Really? This needed to be done?! WTF! 
- http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090427/us_nm/us_newyork_plane
- http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090427/us_nm/us_newyork_plane
- Thread starter
- #6
Just plain stupid. But, by all means let's hand over our health care system, energy plan, banking system and auto manufacturing to these boobs.
I thought everyone voted for change...?
Welcome to change.
Welcome to change.
- Staff
- #8
Change, yes I did, would have been wonderful to see Sarah age the next 4 years. 
STL-Scott
Member # 006
Actually...Canada is not cheaper. They have the CAW up there which is almost as bad as the UAW.
Probably Mexico...or China. GM has plants there already.
They really need to dump the Union, not give over 90% of the company to them (and the Gov.)
Oh well, it will just make the company I work for that much stronger in their market share.
Matthew 10:16
Member # 003
I heard the Prez was mad about what happened today. If he was involved why is he mad?Maybe if our Prez and military would stop wasting fuel buzzing the statue of liberty for a "photo op", the DJIA wouldn't take a nose dive, people wouldn't evacuate buildings (losing time at work), and some taxpayer money could be saved. Really? This needed to be done?! WTF!
mike w
Well-known member
Sad to see pontiac go
Now the truth is out why the firebird was cancelled. Pont rep told me it would kill to many sales for the camaro. I would have thought buick would bite the dust before pontiac ( a performance line) might be to many stand alone buick dealers for gm to fight off the law suits. Thats why saturn is still there and hummer. Next will be hummer and then saturn. Hard on those dealers that built new facilities
Now the truth is out why the firebird was cancelled. Pont rep told me it would kill to many sales for the camaro. I would have thought buick would bite the dust before pontiac ( a performance line) might be to many stand alone buick dealers for gm to fight off the law suits. Thats why saturn is still there and hummer. Next will be hummer and then saturn. Hard on those dealers that built new facilities
- Thread starter
- #12
Actually Buick is the one line that is keeping GM afloat. FACT - Buick in the number one selling car in CHINA.
In addition Buick tied Jaguar as the most dependable car by J.D. Power in 2009. Even beating out Lexus.
That makes Buick the highest rated American made car line.
But...since GM will now be owned by the government and managed by the Obama administration....
Based on the logic behind any of their decisions....Buick will likely be next on the chopping block.
That makes Buick the highest rated American made car line.
But...since GM will now be owned by the government and managed by the Obama administration....
Based on the logic behind any of their decisions....Buick will likely be next on the chopping block.
- Thread starter
- #14
Chrysler Contract
So, the headline consessions that the UAW will be voting on will be elimination of eye care plan, dental care plan, shorter breaks, no holiday on the Monday after Easter. Wow - that will make all the difference in the world. I'm sure there's more but OMG. What consessions did the hedge fund make? Any? Brace yourself - I predict that Chrysler will implode and evaporate shortly. Hope not, but how can this sustain itself. They're gonna get cut off from bailout funds - then it's over.
So, the headline consessions that the UAW will be voting on will be elimination of eye care plan, dental care plan, shorter breaks, no holiday on the Monday after Easter. Wow - that will make all the difference in the world. I'm sure there's more but OMG. What consessions did the hedge fund make? Any? Brace yourself - I predict that Chrysler will implode and evaporate shortly. Hope not, but how can this sustain itself. They're gonna get cut off from bailout funds - then it's over.
- Staff
- #15
Um, the same reason it took 4 days to rescue a captain from a dingy in the middle of the ocean being towed by a ship full of sailors and 3 armed pirates
The spin on things that make the prez look good is getting to be unbelievable 
carpe kid
Member # 018
- First Name
- Brandon
- Last Name
- Eckardt
There is going to be more from UAW then we have heard yet. My father-in-law has been UAW in Fenton for 43 years(only 3 people in the plant have been there longer). His fear right now is taking a 50% hourly pay cut, no overtime, and pension renegotiation. He is also concerned that if he keeps his job he is going to need to move to a different plant.
I am a firm believer that there is WAY TOO MUCH FAT in the UAW and things need to change(I am no longer allowed to speak at the dinner table), but that is one worker's concerns from Fenton.
). His fear right now is taking a 50% hourly pay cut, no overtime, and pension renegotiation. He is also concerned that if he keeps his job he is going to need to move to a different plant. I am a firm believer that there is WAY TOO MUCH FAT in the UAW and things need to change(I am no longer allowed to speak at the dinner table
), but that is one worker's concerns from Fenton.
- Staff
- #18
So, 50% of $58/hr is $29/hr, not work after 5pm or weekends, and a pension.....I'll take that job! How many other unemployed people out there would say the same thing? So, let's just say there are 21,000 UAW workers that quit or go on strike because they don't want to take the pay cut. I'm pretty sure there are more than 21,000 unemployed (albeit untrained in this field) workers available. So, do you accept the cuts, keep you company in business and have a job OR accept no concessions, damn the torpedoes full speed ahead! and not have a company, pension, job.......Umm duh! Guess I don't think about all the things the smart one's with the UAW do.
STL-Scott
Member # 006
I hate to be cynical, but it's fun...
If the UAW workers went on strike or quit, I don't think it would be hard for GM to find replacements. That is if they ever reopen their plants after shutting them down for 9 weeks this summer.
The assembly lines are so automated these days, it is not really a highly skilled job. If I am stepping on any toes, sorry this hurts. Most line workers do the exact same job over and over every hour of every day. I'm not skilled in that line of work, but my guess is that I would get it after a few days on the job. Pick up door from robot, take bolts...insert into hinges, align door with help of robot, use air driven nut driver to install bolts, allow car to move down the line...repeat. It's not like one guy is building an entire car himself.
The same is true at my company. We have slowed down production, and the line workers are being required to take 13 days of non-production between now and July to allow the inventory to skrink, it's at about a 90 day level now and they want to get it back to a 60 day level.
Difference is we are non-union. You either take vacation days, or you don't get paid. Nobody is "job-banking" for these guys, which is non-sense.
There my UAW rant is over.
If the UAW workers went on strike or quit, I don't think it would be hard for GM to find replacements. That is if they ever reopen their plants after shutting them down for 9 weeks this summer.
The assembly lines are so automated these days, it is not really a highly skilled job. If I am stepping on any toes, sorry this hurts. Most line workers do the exact same job over and over every hour of every day. I'm not skilled in that line of work, but my guess is that I would get it after a few days on the job. Pick up door from robot, take bolts...insert into hinges, align door with help of robot, use air driven nut driver to install bolts, allow car to move down the line...repeat. It's not like one guy is building an entire car himself.
The same is true at my company. We have slowed down production, and the line workers are being required to take 13 days of non-production between now and July to allow the inventory to skrink, it's at about a 90 day level now and they want to get it back to a 60 day level.
Difference is we are non-union. You either take vacation days, or you don't get paid. Nobody is "job-banking" for these guys, which is non-sense.
There my UAW rant is over.
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- Staff
- #20
And the White House spin continues - http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/air-force-one-backup-rattles-new-york-nerve/
So, if they had INFORMED the public and the authorities that this was going to take place, people woudn't have emptied the buildings in to the streets. Probably most would have stood by the windows and watched in amazment. Instead, now the s.o.b. that started all of this in cave land somewhere in Iraq is laughing and claiming victory from something that happened 8 years ago, again. WTH!
I'm glad this is in the Paddock as I know some totally disagree with the UAW comments. If that is the case, I would really like to hear from you. Mike D - I know your company is union, don't know if you are or not. Dan? Gary? So far, only one side being heard.
So, if they had INFORMED the public and the authorities that this was going to take place, people woudn't have emptied the buildings in to the streets. Probably most would have stood by the windows and watched in amazment. Instead, now the s.o.b. that started all of this in cave land somewhere in Iraq is laughing and claiming victory from something that happened 8 years ago, again. WTH!
I'm glad this is in the Paddock as I know some totally disagree with the UAW comments. If that is the case, I would really like to hear from you. Mike D - I know your company is union, don't know if you are or not. Dan? Gary? So far, only one side being heard.