I Am Ticked Off !!

[carpe kid]

I took my car in last week to a garage that specializes in classic cars to have them get it up on the rack and go over it before RNG. I was supposed to pick it up Monday. I was out having a great day today and I got to watch my car pass me with two people I had never seen in it!!

I turned around finally found them about 15 minutes later pulling back into garage. The guy did not know who I was so I asked him what he was doing. He told me he was just out goofing off, had to pick up his son and just had to get out and enjoy the day. My response was "Yeah but you did it in my F@#$%^ car!!!"

Long story short, the owner or the manager did not know he even was in(they are closed on Saturdays). I obviously picked up the car and explained to the manager that he, the owner, the piece of S@#$ and I are all going to meet on Monday.

He was all over the car, I even watched him spin the tires 10 feet from putting it back on the rack as I was pulling in!

 

[Tim M]

Uh, wow! All the more reason I try to do my own maintenance. Boy, you showed a lot more restraint than I. That is

and if the guy doesn't at least get fired, I would press charges. This get's me fired up! Sorry it happened man.

 

[STL Mark]

Not to insinuate anything on your end - BUT - did I understand your post correctly? You left your car with a guy for a full week for a "going over".

That right there is an indication of the shop's practices. Take it from me, as a person who (since I'm no kind of mechanic) have probably had my car in the shop more than anyone in the club (basically every 3 or 4 weeks this season) - that is out of hand. My tech goes over my car every time it's on the lift. He visually inspects, and tightens or checks every bolt. It takes less than an hour - but it's money well spent. It's taken me a year to sort out my car. I could tell you some real horror stories - but this one takes the cake.

So - a few questions -
1) Did they fix your car? And is your car OK?
2) Do you remember the mileage in and the mileage out?
3) Finally - what would be a "reasonable" solution here?

Since you won't be paying for any repair work, and you really can't control his hiring (or firing) practices - you could send him an invoice - for renting you car for the week. I'd say 1000.00 a day is reasonable for an exotic car rental. Hand him the invoice on Monday - and either collect the dough - or take him to court for non payment.

I would without a doubt contact the police - and try to get a stolen car charge pinned on him, additionally the State BBB, and for sure the Highway Patrol - they will pull both of their inspectors licenses - and close the shop.

So, a $5000.00 "rental fee" is a no-brainer - if he wants to stay in business.

 

[Matthew 10:16]

Horror Story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll bet a lot more of this kinda stuff goes on then we all realize. Good advice Mark. Not sure the owner would be liable for a "rental fee." As I understood the story, the "manager" went into the shop w/o his boss's knowledge & took his son for a joy ride when the shop was closed.

 

[carpe kid]

I didn't go 100% into the story. I have been talking to the shop manager and owner for over 3 months about bringing the car in. Until now the only place that has ever touch the car was Fastlane. The problem here is I trusted the owner and manager. This guy was a worker that has a key to the business. They are closed on the weekends. He went in on his own with no one there to impress his son. I had the PD leave a message for the owner and the manager finally got back to me last night. He was so upset he could hardly speak. The owner and the manager are true car guys. To me it frankly would be like leaving my car with one of you for storage. I would feel it was in good hands.

You know they say you trust until you have a reason not to trust. I had never had a reason not to trust. I know approximate mileage but not exact. What I do know is it is about a 1/2 tank lower, the rear tires were warm and the car was hot. It was only about 65* when I picked it up.

My wife told me that in 11 years she has not seen me that angry and she thought the situation was going to get much worse. I luckly for me walked away everytime I got close to the guy. The PD is on call and I have a meeting with the owner and manager on Monday.

As for leaving the car that long that was my fault due to my schedule, but it was in a secured building with locked gates. Plus if the only way one would think to look at this business is if you needed them, very unassuming place.

Shannon tells me I am being too harse, the guy made a mistake. Personally, I want the service for free(already done) comp for fuel, the guys head and hopefully he can do some time in a place where he will have to do time with a bull queer named Bubba!!

For you guys that know well, how do you tell the condition of the clutch and tranny? Can I tell easily if he tore it up? It still feels fine as a drive.

 

[NAJA65]

OMG, that takes the cake. I hope it all goes well for you and that restitution is swift and satisfactory. Do not be afraid to share the name and address of this establishment.
Can you say "Violated".

 

[carpe kid]

Won't share yet. I want to see what the owner is going to do first.

 

[STL Mark]

It sounds like you have everything under control.

But - If this is that good of a shop - and these guys are "car guys" in the truest sense of the words - then THEY more than anybody else knows that this is not cool.

 

[Tim M]

I'll let Kerry and Paul speak to the worn clutch. I know what it feels like, but not sure how to describe it. If you do nothing about this, you have to wonder how many other cars this has happened to? Like you are doing, keep your cool and see if they resolve it to your satisfaction. I really don't know what would be to my satisfaction other than the worker being dismissed, free services, gas fill up, and maybe even new tires. Are you getting it on the track at RNG? There will be a lot of folks there that can explain a bad clutch to you I'm sure.

 

[carpe kid]

Thanks guys. I know the feel at the pedal, but I didn't know if there was some sort of diagnostics that could be done. I understand that I have both criminal and civil options, but I don't want to smear a biz without cause. I have not spoken to the owner yet and the manager was so upset he said he could stand and talk to me. He wanted to go to the guy's house immediately after our conversation. The meeting tomorrow will tell how it plays out. I don't know, clutch, tires, service(not that at this point I would take it there again) but we will see. Again, my prob is the only guys I ever talked to I still cannot say I would not trust them with the car. The biggest issue though is the car is not the same as it was when I took it there.

more to come.....

 

[Matthew 10:16]

Ticked Off

Violated. That certainly was the first word that came to my mind when I read your story. I will be shocked if the owner does not discharge this employee. That will be 1st clue whether he is seriously interested in addressing this issue appropriately. He should certainly realize that if does not respond appropriately he will damage his businesses reputation beyond repair & he will risk that you wish to sue him for damages. Agency/Principal Law & the legal doctrine of Respondeat Superior both apply in this situation in regard to the owner's (Principal) liability to you as a 3rd party in regard to the acts of his agent/employee. However, for the employee/agent to create liability for the Principal/employer to you as a 3rd party the agent/employee must have performed acts resulting in damages to you "within the course of his employment." This is why expressed doubt in my previous post about the owner's liability to you. The employee was evidently acting outside the scope of his employment & without his employer's knowledge, consent or acquiescence. Sorry it's a stretch to hold the owner liable under the circumstances you have described.

 

[carpe kid]

Thanks Dave, makes sense, but he also used his key that the owner gave him to get into the shop and take my car. I don't care if the courts feel the same or not, but it is up to him to make a wise business decision.

I personally would be more than happy to rent a billboard on the highway for a year or two to warn people that their car will be miss handled when taken to this place IF he does not handle it properly.

Like I said, I own two businesses, I would be lying if I said my employees have never done harm, but I go WELL above and beyond to fix issues. I don't take violating a customer lightly, whether it is theft, indifference, being rude, etc.

As for being violated the guy told me its ok I have driven plenty of preformance cars. My only response was Who cares, you may have slept with plenty of women, but that doesn't give you the right to sleep with my wife!

Dave, Did he steal the car??? He was not out in it under normal business hours or purposes. Sorry for the free legal advice

 

[STL Mark]

Wow - leagaleeze - try again in English.

So, if there's no damage - there's no problem? No harm - no foul?

Is the owner responsible for anything? or just the employee?

What about the idea that the vehicle was was under the "care" of the owner and on his property? And that proper care was not taken to secure the vehicle - like a locked key storage.

I'm not sure about the legal ramifications of all of this (I'm not a lawyer) - BUT - I'll bet the Highway Patrol may have a few things to say about it. They (as part of the state) issue the certified inspectors mechanic license that is in every repair shop.

 

[Kerry & Kathy]

Violated. That certainly was the first word that came to my mind when I read your story. I will be shocked if the owner does not discharge this employee. That will be 1st clue whether he is seriously interested in addressing this issue appropriately. He should certainly realize that if does not respond appropriately he will damage his businesses reputation beyond repair & he will risk that you wish to sue him for damages. Agency/Principal Law & the legal doctrine of Respondeat Superior both apply in this situation in regard to the owner's (Principal) liability to you as a 3rd party in regard to the acts of his agent/employee. However, for the employee/agent to create liability for the Principal/employer to you as a 3rd party the agent/employee must have performed acts resulting in damages to you "within the course of his employment." This is why expressed doubt in my previous post about the owner's liability to you. The employee was evidently acting outside the scope of his employment & without his employer's knowledge, consent or acquiescence. Sorry it's a stretch to hold the owner liable under the circumstances you have described.

Now THAT is the kind of post by David I like to read.

An honest, helpful, succinct sharing of his expertise. The kind of post that allows other forum members to appreciate the intelligence, experience and professional skills that David brings to this forum.

I would offer a suggestion for his serious consideration:

I would recommend that David consider a forum name change…from “Oddball” to “Counselor”…

Certainly a moniker more appropriate for his skills.

I vote that we put the “Oddball” to rest…and welcome the “Counselor” to our midst…

Does anyone else agree?

K&K

 

[Matthew 10:16]

Thank You Kerry & Kathy.......................

for your kind words. I am in the mist of formulating a response to Mark & Brandon's posts. More to come.

 

[Kerry & Kathy]

Brandon,

As far as checking your car for damage…

1. If the clutch were worn excessively you will feel an increase in clutch pedal free play. If you think the clutch feels normal…you are likely OK.

2. If your belhousing has an inspection plate on the bottom, you can measure the width of the clutch disc and compare that to a new disk thickness spec. Most will provide a max and minimum thickness for comparison. If you don’t have the inspection plate on the belhousing bottom, the best you can do is look through the clutch release arm hole with inspection mirror and light, looking for clutch disc debris. Unfortunately you won’t be able to see if the flywheel is scorched without removing the pressure plate. If the clutch is so damaged that you can see debris...there will be other driving issues, slippage, clutch free play that will have surfaced first.

3. The suggestion by Paul to put the car in third gear under heavy load and low speed to see if the clutch tries to slip under acceleration is a good diagnostic, however the clutch pedal free play will be your first indicator. Unless..you have a rear mainseal leaking or some other condition where oil has reached the clutch disc. Then the third gear pull will be the best check for slippage.

4. If the transmission shifts cleanly on both up shifts and downshifts, the synchronizers are OK.

5. Look for excessive backlash in the driveshaft U Joints, with the transmission in gear and emergency brake set… There will be backlash in the transmission that you should disregard. You are looking only for excessive play in the U Joints themselves. Hold the transmission output yoke in one hand and the differential flange in the other, and twist back and forth. Excessive play would result from dumping the clutch at high RPM’s …multiple times.

6. If the engine runs good and sounds OK at an idle…you can disregard this last check. But…if it were me, I would consider doing a leak down test on the engine to see if you may have one or more bent valves from over-reving or a missed shift. If the engine at idle runs rough of spits back…or you have one or more exhaust pipes that check cooler than the rest with an infrared thermometer…you may have one or more cylinders that are not sealing 100% due to bent valves. A compression test would be a simple check to make, although a leakdown tester will be more accurate in diagnosing a problem.

Hope that helps.

Kerry

 

[carpe kid]

Wow. Thank you! I am on it today. The pedal still fines fine, but I guess I am just worried about what he did. If he was willing to spin the tires 10 feet from putting it on the lift what did he do in the open???

 

[Matthew 10:16]

Legal Response

Man oh Man now look what I've done. I'm glad everyone is on Brandon's side here cause I am too. BUT, I'm gonna give ya the straight stuff not just what ya wanna here. I'll respond to Mark 1st. No this is NOT a situation of No damage/No harm/No foul. While that can be the case in some circumstances that is certainly NOT the case here. Of course the owner is responsible for certain things, BUT he is in all likelihood not responsible for the intentional acts of his employee committed presumably without the owner's knowledge, consent or acquiescence. Is the owner responsible because it was "under the 'care' of the owner and on his property?" Now were talking about Bailment Law. In most states the "bailee" (that's the owner here) must be grossly negligent to be liable if a chattel in his care is damaged. Under the circumstances I am struggling to come up with a theory of liability against the owner because of his apparent lack of knowledge, consent or acquiescence. Get what you can from him by way of pressure & go harder legally & otherwise against the employee. Now Brandon. Be EXTREMELY careful about going public with billboards or other mediums to communicate your anger. You obviously do not wish to create liability for yourself by defaming some one's character or business. That being said, truth is an absolute defense to a defamation of character allegation. "Did he steal the car?" Probably not in the eyes of the law. Theft is defined as follows: A person commits the crime of theft when they intentionally take the property of another person without permission or consent with the intent to convert it to their own property. In your situation he evidently "borrowed" it with the intent of giving it back to you after he abused it. Trust me I am on your side here Kid, & the employee certainly deserves to get hung out to dry, but if the owner responds appropriately, I would tend to be a little more forgiving of him. But that is my nature to be forgiving. You know the circumstances better than I do. Look at the obviously EXTREMELY poor example this guy set for his son. What a perverse father he is. EDIT Hey Brandon if you can prove that their is a history of this particular employee being untrustworthy in similar examples of taking liberties with other owners vehicles you may be able to pursue the owner legally.

 

[Tim M]

In the open, probably 130! Wow, this is like when my son's done something to break my trust in them, how am I to regain that trust? Same here, I don't think you could trust them with your car. Dave, er, Counselor - I didn't understand a word of that, but, I liked it As you can see in Kerry's post, there are/can be so many things that could have happened during his joy ride. Maybe, just Maybe, tomorrow's meeting you could grill the guy and find out what he did while out. He MIGHT tell the truth. I don't know, without going through the whole thing if I would be comfortable, but as some people say, drive it like you stole it until something breaks, then you will know what to fix

 

[carpe kid]

Ok. I had the whole day to go over the car, I have to say I am not happy. It has small scratch marks on the passenger's front quarter panel. It's like someone had a buckle, zipper something while he was looking under the hood. It has two burn marks about the size of a quarter, each in the passenger carpet that wasn't there before. The clutch feels good, but it has a nasty click. Sounds like either an exhaust leak or a valve clicking.

I am now going to trailer it in instead of driving to have it looked at. I think either Fastlane or the guy that Mark goes to.