Club blasphemy rules

PNewton

PNewton

Member #081
Location
Frontenac
First Name
Peter
Last Name
Newton
I have a line on a drag racing engine. Only thing is, it's an SBC. Dun-dun-duuuuuuuhhhhhhh (as my kid would say)!

What are the club rules on defiling a Cobra with a Chevy engine?

My client bought it as part of a distressed sale with two complete race cars, and he has no use for it. It's just sitting under a tarp in the back of his shop. The guy who he bought it from said he had more than $10K in parts over the cost of the engine itself, and claimed it would make 600+ hp without the NOS. My guy gave him $4K. Best I can tell it has a Holley HP (950?) carb over a Super Victor intake. I'm not positive on the details other than it's all Edelbrock and Holley parts externally. His head mechanic is going to open it up to confirm what the guy claimed before the sale, but he said that based on looking at it that probably tracks. He said he can just plug the NOS ports, which I'm not interested in keeping. He has guys, in-house, to fabricate the motor mounts and the headers, and it's a bell housing to hook it up to the existing drive train (which probably can't handle it, but at least that's a deferred cost till it blows).

Here's the thing. He'll sell me the engine, make the mounts and headers, attach the bell housing, and install it for $5k. He's practically giving me the engine. He's a good client and a good friend and wants to do it for me as a favor. I've sold him or arranged to sell him several used cars, handled several real estate transactions for him, and he feels like he owes me.

I was not even looking at or considering Chevy, if for no other reason than it's not plug-and-play. Given this is falling into my lap I'm seriously considering it.

I'd first like to know what the club ramifications are.

Will my membership be rescinded?
Will I have to turn in my GCC name tag?
Will there be a ceremony where I have to walk out of the meeting as members turn their backs on me?
Will people still talk to me, or will they pretend I'm not there?
Will I find motor oil on my hot dog at the BBQ?
Will people still talk to me?

Just what actually happens to people who put SBCs into Cobras?
 
SBC1.jpgSBC2.jpgSBC3.jpg
 
haha, no, we won't disown you. Just keep that Chevy stink away from my car :p :D Really, not a problem at all. That's what's cool about these cars, each individual has their own spin on it.
 
Why you scurvy dog you.. :rolleyes:
Been told with the distributer on the wrong end of the engine, the car will run backwards. :eek:
 
PNewton said:
I have a line on a drag racing engine. Only thing is, it's an SBC. Dun-dun-duuuuuuuhhhhhhh (as my kid would say)!

What are the club rules on defiling a Cobra with a Chevy engine?

My client bought it as part of a distressed sale with two complete race cars, and he has no use for it. It's just sitting under a tarp in the back of his shop. The guy who he bought it from said he had more than $10K in parts over the cost of the engine itself, and claimed it would make 600+ hp without the NOS. My guy gave him $4K. Best I can tell it has a Holley HP (950?) carb over a Super Victor intake. I'm not positive on the details other than it's all Edelbrock and Holley parts externally. His head mechanic is going to open it up to confirm what the guy claimed before the sale, but he said that based on looking at it that probably tracks. He said he can just plug the NOS ports, which I'm not interested in keeping. He has guys, in-house, to fabricate the motor mounts and the headers, and it's a bell housing to hook it up to the existing drive train (which probably can't handle it, but at least that's a deferred cost till it blows).

Here's the thing. He'll sell me the engine, make the mounts and headers, attach the bell housing, and install it for $5k. He's practically giving me the engine. He's a good client and a good friend and wants to do it for me as a favor. I've sold him or arranged to sell him several used cars, handled several real estate transactions for him, and he feels like he owes me.

I was not even looking at or considering Chevy, if for no other reason than it's not plug-and-play. Given this is falling into my lap I'm seriously considering it.

I'd first like to know what the club ramifications are.

Will my membership be rescinded?
Will I have to turn in my GCC name tag?
Will there be a ceremony where I have to walk out of the meeting as members turn their backs on me?
Will people still talk to me, or will they pretend I'm not there?
Will I find motor oil on my hot dog at the BBQ?
Will people still talk to me?

Just what actually happens to people who put SBCs into Cobras?
Click to expand...

Time for a reality check....

The questions should not be whether or not to put a Chevy small block in a Cobra...
That is a non issue.

The questions should be related to specific details of the engine and what components were selected for it.

An engine built for drag racing will have many desirable parts for durability: forged pistons...forged crank...forged rods...but will be absolutely the wrong combination of parts for a enjoyable, dependable easy to drive street engine.
Driveability and daily street operation will be a royal PITA.
More importantly...it is an invitation to engine failure.

Specifically....

What is the static compression ratio of this engine?
This is key.
Many Nitrous engines are built with very high static compression ratios...often from 13:1 to 15:1 and are designed to run on Racing Fuel of 106 octane or higher.
They HAVE to be run on racing gas.
If you attempt to run one on 93 octane or less...even with reduced timing...you will knock a ring land off the piston or put a hole through the piston dome under any load.
How would you run this engine on the street or on a cruise where even 93 octane can sometimes be a challenge to find?
You HAVE to know the static compression ratio of this engine.

Next...What piston alloy was used in the forged pistons?
4032 or 2618 alloy?
Forged pistons for drag racing where high heat is expected (nitrous especially) will normally have 2618 alloy pistons. These have nearly no silicon content and require high piston skirt clearances...often .005-.007".
In dedicated racing engines these will allow the engine to survive multiple full throttle passes without seizing a piston. In a street engine they will rattle like marbles in a tin can when cold.
In addition...the large skirt clearances will allow the piston to rock when cold and will reduce ring life.
A set of racing rings will be replaced after 50-100 passes. In a street driven engine they will not provide adequate sealing long term. They are not designed for high mileage. They are designed for quick sealing and resistance to detonation only.

IF...the piston alloy used was 4032...the compression may still be too high...but the alloy itself would be OK for the street.
4032 has up to 18% silicon and can be fitted to much tighter piston to skirt clearances.
However a 4032 piston is not as strong or resistant to detonation as a 2618 alloy piston...and would not be used in a Nitrous racing engine where detonation is very prevalent.
A Small block built for nitrous will (should) have 2618 alloy forged pistons....and would be totally unsuitable for long term street use.
You NEED to know the piston alloy used in this engine.

Next...What is the cam used....?
Specifically...you need to know the intake and exhaust opening and closing points / duration at .050 lift?
Is it a solid lifter or hydraulic lifter cam?
Does it have roller lifters? Is so...what brand or style?
What were the valve spring pressures used?
Heavy valve spring pressures needed for high rpm operation when racing... can wear out a flat tappet cam very quickly when street driven and are very sensitive to the composition of engine oil used.

There are many other issues... such as a carb that is much too large for the street....but I'll end my comments here.

Put simply...you cannot take a competitive racing engine built specifically for Nitrous Drag Racing and expect it to be a suitable engine for street use...

Keep in mind that my comments and perspective come from building racing engines from 1975 to 1984 as my livelihood.
I personally would not under any circumstance...use the engine you have described...as is... in a street driven car.

Your only option with this engine would be a complete tear down and rebuild using proper pistons...cam...carburation and related components for HP street use.
 
Actually, we had a long time club member who had an LS1 motor in his Daytona Coupe! Unfortunately he moved out of the area just before you joined.
 
These are all good suggestions Peter. And "YES" to all of them :p
Will my membership be rescinded?
Will I have to turn in my GCC name tag?
Will there be a ceremony where I have to walk out of the meeting as members turn their backs on me?
Will people still talk to me, or will they pretend I'm not there?
Will I find motor oil on my hot dog at the BBQ?
Will people still talk to me?
Click to expand...

I think you also have to be the last car in the Cruise line-ups and you are not allowed to open your hood at club events or tell anyone what club you belong to.
Other than that, we're ok with it.


Actually, the concern I would have (if it were mine, or I was in your shoes), is not that it's a Chevy, but that it's a Drag motor.
Lots of Horsepower, yes. But Streetable and reliable, doubtful. And when things go wrong (and I'm certain they will), you will be buying high-dollar Racing replacement parts (that could take weeks to come in).
We had a member (our beloved former president), that had a high-end, high-horsepower (some said Drag) motor, that repaired it multiple times and rebuilt it at least 3 times that I count.
Cool / beautiful motor that made tons of HP and torque, but it almost tore itself apart. And having good work done on it was also problematic.

Also, everything else in your drive-train becomes a weak link. Replacing your stock T5 is not "if", it's "when".
And you will also be looking for stickier tires (and a gas station) often.
And probably improved cooling system and fuel pump too.

Horsepower is a dangerous drug. We all want it, but it comes at a cost. It's tempting, but not knowing more about it, personally I'd pass.
 
Good points Kerry. I'm not totally oblivious to them either. The "Strip Dominator" intake and size of the carb gives me my initial pause.

The owner was told it's a pump gas engine. Hopefully that means it's not in the compression ratios you mention. If it is it's a no go for sure.

No idea on the pistons and rings, or if it's solid lifters. It'll be easy to see if it's solid or hydraulic when he opens it up. Not sure on the pistons but hopefully he can discern what they are from makers marks on the pistons and looking at the rings...or not.

I agree on the carb and the intake manifold. Those can be addressed easily enough though. Not so much if the pistons and rings are wrong. Hopefully we open it up and it's a hydraulic roller. If it isn't I'm going to pass right there for all the reasons you mention.

I am going to try and talk to the guy who sold it to my client and see if he can answer some of those questions.

Failing that I would love to have you take a look at it if you have time.
I think you also have to be the last car in the Cruise line-ups and you are not allowed to open your hood at club events or tell anyone what club you belong to.
Click to expand...

Those are great. I wish I would have thought of them.
 
Not addressing the race motor for street use, that's been addressed.

Consider that any amount of money put into a bowtie in a cobra will yield $0 return at resale. As long as you plan to keep the car forever, it's a non-issue.

Would you buy a Corvette with a 427 Cleveland in it?
 
I must applaud Paul P.... certainly a "thinker", and above regarding all previous well made comments...Paul P hit the nail squarely on the head! A Cobra with a Chevy engine....???������
 
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