Citizenship

A

A Snake

Member #024
Location (City)
McLeansboro, Il
First Name
Mike
Last Name
Woley
Logical and rational linear thinkers believe the issue can be resolved by Obama answering one simple question:

What passport did he use when he was shuttling between
New York, Jakarta, and Karachi?
So how did a young man who arrived in New York in early June 1981,
without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later?

And once=2 0he was on a plane, shuttling between New York, Jakarta, and
Karachi, what passport was he offering when he passed through Customs and Immigration?

The American people not only deserve to have answers to these questions,
they must have answers.

It makes the debate over Obama's citizenship a rather short and simple one.
< /div>

Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?
A : Yes, by his own admission.

Q: What passport did he travel under?
A: There are only three possibilities.
1) He traveled with a U.S. Passport,
2) He traveled with a British passport, or
3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.
Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible.
Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in
1981.

Conclusion:

When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling either with a
British passport or an Indonesian passport.
If he were traveling with a British passport that would provide proof
that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims.
And if he were traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to
prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or
American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967.

Whatever the truth of the matter,the American people need to know how he managed to become a "natural born"
American citizen between 1981 and 2008..

Given the destructive nature of his plans for America,
as illustrated by his speech before Congress
and the disastrous spending plan he ha s presented to Congress,
the sooner we learn the truth of all this, the better.

If you Don't care that Your President is not a natural born Citizen and in Violation of the Constitution, then Delete this and go back into your cocoon.
 
Since there seems to be an interest in citizenship, I am creating this thread for all relevant citizenship postings. I will be moving some comments into this thread.
 
Would you be asking those same questions about Obama if:

He was white?
He was a conservative?
His last name was Collins?

If you answered "NO" to any of the above you are prejudiced. Plain and simple.

Get over it. He is the President of The United States!
 
Phoenix said:
Would you be asking those same questions about Obama if:

He was white?
He was a conservative?
His last name was Collins?

If you answered "NO" to any of the above you are prejudiced. Plain and simple.

Get over it. He is the President of The United States!
Click to expand...

Yes...I would ask the same questions.

I don't care if the candidate is GREEN...or what his party affiliation or last name. If the person in question is not a US citizen...he should never have been a candidate for president.

I didn't care for Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter, but I didn't question their citizenship because they were forthcoming in providing the necessary information to confirm such. Barry Sorento has not done that...

Every previous president I am aware of has met citizenship requirements. Requirements that were easily confirmed by the candidate. Yet from day one there has been secrecy and a lack of public openness of Obama's birth certificate, particularly in light of conflicting information from relatives and public officials.

A rational person would think that to put this issue to rest, his birth certificate would be made readily available to the public. Instead he has been anything but open on this matter. First a "record of Birth" was posted on the Obama web site only to be withdrawn after credible experts questioned several technical issues with the document. Then a second DIFFERENT document was posted. Then his Hawaiian records were sealed. Why...? Why the lack of disclosure on such an important issue? Those actions themselves raise a question of legitimacy.

The issue is that MANY of us will NOT get over it... until he can confirm the legitimacy of his citizenship.

The assumption is that he is president because no one has yet to prove otherwise. Yet there remain 18 legal challenges, to date, to confirm or dispel, his claim of US Birth. But he remains only a defacto "president" until his citizenship can be confirmed.

The fact that you don't express a similar doubt on such an important issue while assuming that anyone questioning his legitimacy is doing so for reasons of prejudice does not speak well of your own objectivity.

Kerry
 
Well I don't consider myself prejudice. There are certain "requirements" for the office of POTUS. If legitimate questions can't be answered then the SOB is a LIAR. An I don't care if he's white, black, pink, purple, orange or has boobs. I'm sick to death of the racial angle and everyone dancing around it. He was elected. True. Was it under false pretenses? That's the question. Not his skin color, or anything else. That is the Law of the land and it isn't up for debate or question. It is the right and PRIVILEGE of every natural born US citizen to run for office once they meet the age and citizenship requirements and it should be applied equally to amn or woman. Independant proof should be verify without both sides getting into it and have it done and answered. If he can't supply the documents, then step down. If he can, great and let's be done with it. I'm prepared to ride this one out either way. He's one man and I got to believe after the mid term elections, a lot of this will even out and sanity will prevail.
 
Kerry - after reading your post I was wondering (until I got to the sentence in your post) - are there any credible court cases, or investigations by the Justice Dept., or any authoritative opinions that may have an actual bearing on this matter? The reason I'm asking is that there doesn't seem to be anything in the media about it, and I'm not to hip on the whole internet blogosphere as a credible source. Just asking - is anyone with any sort of "power" following this lead?
 
Gentlemen, gentleman, gentlemen, please let's be friends. We all love Cobras & our country. Let's not let our political or non-political opinions divide us & cause hard feelings. Please I beg you. I want our club to be one big happy family if possible.
 
They both have their points. Race IS an undercurrent no doubt, and the validity of his pedigree has been a topic for a while. I'm just wondering if that particular issue will be brought to a definitive resolution anytime soon.
 
In the end, he is now Prez and no matter what proof is brought forward, it will now be "hidden" or pushed aside for as long as he is president and then it will be brought out. By that time, it won't matter. Just isn't any credible information out there for me proving otherwise. Race has nothing to do with whether or not he is an American Citizen or not. I too wonder how come nothing definitive has been proven, one way or another.

Please make sure to stay on topic here, be objective, and no personal attacks please. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions whatever they may be.
 
STL Mark said:
Kerry - after reading your post I was wondering (until I got to the sentence in your post) - are there any credible court cases, or investigations by the Justice Dept., or any authoritative opinions that may have an actual bearing on this matter? The reason I'm asking is that there doesn't seem to be anything in the media about it, and I'm not to hip on the whole internet blogosphere as a credible source. Just asking - is anyone with any sort of "power" following this lead?
Click to expand...

Mark,

To address your questions...There have been many challenges and a large number of dismissals and denials to hear the cases brought.

The best way to get a feel for what is taking place is to search "Obama Citizenship Legal Challenges 2009".

Here is only a partial listing and status update as of June 13th 2009 for some of the cases over Obama’s eligibility:

* New Jersey attorney Mario Apuzzo has filed a case on behalf of Charles Kerchner and others alleging Congress didn't’t properly ascertain that Obama is qualified to hold the office of president. Case pending.

* Pennsylvania Democrat Philip Berg has three cases pending, including Berg vs. Obama in the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, a separate Berg vs. Obama now awaiting an appeal and Hollister vs. Soetoro a/k/a Obama, (now dismissed) brought on behalf of a retired military member who could be facing recall to active duty by Obama.

* Leo Donofrio of New Jersey filed a lawsuit claiming Obama’s dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court but denied a full hearing.

* Cort Wrotnowski filed suit against Connecticut’s secretary of state, making a similar argument to Donofrio. His case was considered in conference by the U.S. Supreme Court, but was denied a full hearing.

* Former presidential candidate Alan Keyes headlines a list of people filing a suit in California, in a case handled by the United States Justice Foundation, that asks the secretary of state to refuse to allow the state’s 55 Electoral College votes to be cast in the 2008 presidential election until Obama verifies his eligibility to hold the office. The case is pending.

* Chicago lawyer Andy Martin sought legal action requiring Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle to release Obama’s vital statistics record. The case was dismissed by Hawaii Circuit Court Judge Bert Ayabe.

* Lt. Col. Donald Sullivan sought a temporary restraining order to stop the Electoral College vote in North Carolina until Barack Obama’s eligibility could be confirmed, alleging doubt about Obama’s citizenship. His case was denied.

* In Ohio, David M. Neal sued to force the secretary of state to request documents from the Federal Elections Commission, the Democratic National Committee, the Ohio Democratic Party and Obama to show the presidential candidate was born in Hawaii. The case was denied.

* Also in Ohio, there was the Greenberg v. Brunner case which ended when the judge threatened to assess all case costs against the plaintiff.

* In Washington state, Steven Marquis sued the secretary of state seeking a determination on Obama’s citizenship. The case was denied.

* In Georgia, Rev. Tom Terry asked the state Supreme Court to authenticate Obama’s birth certificate. His request for an injunction against Georgia’s secretary of state was denied by Georgia Superior Court Judge Jerry W. Baxter.

* California attorney Orly Taitz has brought a case, Lightfoot vs. Bowen, on behalf of Gail Lightfoot, the vice presidential candidate on the ballot with Ron Paul, four electors and two registered voters. She also has brought forward several other cases and has conducted several public campaigns to generate awareness of the issue. Case pending.

In addition, other cases raising questions about Obama’s eligibility include:
* In Texas, Darrel Hunter vs. Obama. dismissed.
* In Ohio, Gordon Stamper vs. U.S. dismissed.
* In Texas, Brockhausen vs. Andrade. Case pending.
* In Washington, L. Charles Cohen vs. Obama. Case pending.
* In Hawaii, Keyes vs. Lingle, dismissed.
 
Dave I agree with you. I don't want any hard feelings within the club. If I offended then I apoligize. That wasn't the intent. Karl is right to ask the question, but if even one person can answer yes then the source of question must be legitimally answered. That is the law of our land. Obama was elected by the citizens of this country. I just don't want tough questions being sidestepped because of calls of racism or political correctness. Debate is healthy and generally it brings out both sides of the equation.

Your right in that this club is also about the cars and our love for them and wanting to be with friends that have like interests. If only we could all get our cars running right, we'd be out driving instead of this debate. :D

I'd much rather try out a new road or enjoy an old one. Later.
 
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Personally, I would like the letter of the law followed 100%.
I don't understand why this is so difficult to determine.
It just seems like a black and white issue (no pun intended).
I wish this would get resolved to finally put it to rest.

Cover up??? I don't know.
Blind Justice???? It should be, but I don't know if it is anymore.
Could there be facts that we are not aware of ???

There's really only two possible answers. Either he's "legal" and we can again comment on policies,
or he's not legal - in which case Biden is the new president who will preside over a very real civil war.

A peaceful transition of powers has been a hallmark of our country for over 200 years. I hope we don't screw this up.

BTW - I'm inclined to leave this thread open because it's an interesting story and may have historical bearing on us all, but as Tim stated earlier I trust that we can carry on this discussion without resorting to personal attacks on each other.
 
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Its very simple can you really trust this man from the chicago cesspool of democrats. Who he is and was connected too. Come on now you all can,t be that blind. And yes race got him elected look at it in simple form hillary stepped down and indorsed him ( women vote to weak ) now he got the black vote ( helped by powel ) and the women vote. Powel switched i highly suspect soon he ( powel )will get a high paid cushy appointment. Omama has many of clinton folks back in goverment. Quote: The enemy from within. Rush maybe nuts on some items but i think he might be hitting the nail on the head on this one. 1 more thought would we like Biden behind the wheel ( hes like a crayon in a pencil box not to sharp ). i rest my rant.
 
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It's late, but I couldn't disagree more. Race has nothing to do with the question at hand (citizenship). And, as for the election, he couldn't have been elected without a very large majority of white votes. So, the race question is moot. The Chicago Machine politics is a different animal for sure, but does it really have the national reach and breadth to monopolize a national election - doubt it - but it's late now. We'll tear into this again tomorrow.

Cheers.
 
Hey fellow Cobra nuts...should I apologize for my orginal post? Naw, as Mark said this is interesting topic that can be debated with out upsetting me or I hope anyone else.
I am sorry that the race card had to be played on what is nothing but more than a legal issue. At one time in our history a black person(is that pc today) couldn't even vote! We have come a long way since the '50/'60s. I am proud of my own growth in this arena...do I agree with all the special treatment in the name of equality? No but I have learned to accept and tolerate what has become law. And that is what this isssue is all about...LEGALITY.
German decent American(again would that be PC in todays environment)
 
Who do you believe? What website do you believe? Here are a few examples of what is running around on the net:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/obama_citizenship_lawsuit_154.html

I for one just have a hard time believing anything on the web concerning this topic. On one hand, if you are a radical political citizen, you will have opinions that are wildly to the right or to the left of the topic, but never right on topic. If you are a liberal political citizen, you will believe and report what you want to believe, not necessarily the facts. In today's media, I just don't know who to believe. Maybe with Mark's help, I can start a news network based solely on facts providing my sources as backup. So, here we are 6 months in to this presidency, think anything will change?
 
Purple Venom said:
Who do you believe? What website do you believe? Here are a few examples of what is running around on the net:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/obama_citizenship_lawsuit_154.html

I for one just have a hard time believing anything on the web concerning this topic. On one hand, if you are a radical political citizen, you will have opinions that are wildly to the right or to the left of the topic, but never right on topic. If you are a liberal political citizen, you will believe and report what you want to believe, not necessarily the facts. In today's media, I just don't know who to believe. Maybe with Mark's help, I can start a news network based solely on facts providing my sources as backup. So, here we are 6 months in to this presidency, think anything will change?
Click to expand...

Tim,

I have the same issue with conflicting reports. What I try to do is look for the most current information. Reports that are no more than 30-60 days old...

In each of the three links you reference, this is information that was posted PRIOR to the Nov election in 2008. Some have since alleged that some sites were manipulated just prior to the election to silence detractors and in doing so...influence the vote. There was an assumption that false claims could not be properly challenged in the short time between the reports and the election. There may be some truth in this but that is now old history.

There have been multiple legal challenges that have occurred since the election. Many since Jan 2009 that are still active. How can a site like snopes publish a legitimate claim true or false when their report is now nine months old with no recent updates to take into account new developments in the ongoing challenge?

Bottom line is that you have to decide for yourself. Investigate as many sources as you can, weed out those with obvious bias or agenda's and if you begin to see a trend of information from those sources that remain...then make your own conclusions.

Then there is your gut feeling. A lot can be learned from what people don't tell you. The old adage that actions speak louder than words is a time proven truism. I believe people who have nothing to hide will seek to provide open disclosure. It is in their best interest to do so.

Those that refuse to provide corroborating information...even in direct defiance of a court order...suggest to me an intent to keep the truth hidden. That in itself destroys any credibility that Obama would hope to maintain. If he is a citizen...it is an easy fact to confirm publicly. The fact that over $1M in funds have now been spent to keep his records sealed screams for an investigation. But as long as Erik Holder remains Attorney General...do we really expect him to investigate the man who appointed him, with due diligence?

Any legitimate challenge to Obama's citizenship will have to come from legitimate sources outside the Obama Justice Department and administration. Personally, I have hope that the Supreme Court will come to the rescue.

To date the two cases reviewed by the Supreme Court were not rejected because of lack of merit, but rather because those individuals bringing the challenges could not show standing in the eyes of the court. For the court to consider the case, the person bringing suit had to show that they personally suffered damages from Obama's unwillingness to confirm his citizenship. Apparently in the eyes of the court that has not been done, to date. But there are other challenges that remain ongoing from Presidential candidates who did suffer damages from Obama's action.

The story is not yet told...and it continues as we speak.

The importance however is monumental. Think if we set a precedent that allows a non US citizen to become President of the United States and leader of the free world. If Obama's citizenship is determined to be falsified...our political system will have done exactly that. There should be safeguards in place to eliminate any such falsification of records, yet we may in fact still be vulnerable to such a ruse. People may have been so enamored with the man's personality that they did not properly vet his qualifications.

There is far too much at stake here to be discouraged by threats of the race card and charges of personal vendettas. We all should monitor the progress of this issue as best we can, regardless of your political affiliation.

Having said that...I agree with Mark that if Obama is shown not to be a US citizen and is forced to step down.... A civil war will erupt. Those in positions of authority on both sides of the isle appreciate that fact, and I wonder if some are reluctant to dig too deeply for fear of the truth they might uncover and the aftermath of that truth.

Keeping Obama in office, regardless of the truth would be the lesser of two evils.

It would be a tough call.

Kerry
 
TBULL said:
Dave I agree with you. I don't want any hard feelings within the club. If I offended then I apoligize. That wasn't the intent. Karl is right to ask the question, but if even one person can answer yes then the source of question must be legitimally answered. That is the law of our land. Obama was elected by the citizens of this country. I just don't want tough questions being sidestepped because of calls of racism or political correctness. Debate is healthy and generally it brings out both sides of the equation.

Your right in that this club is also about the cars and our love for them and wanting to be with friends that have like interests. If only we could all get our cars running right, we'd be out driving instead of this debate. :D

I'd much rather try out a new road or enjoy an old one. Later.
Click to expand...
Hey Bull I liked & enjoyed this post more than any other you have posted on the site. Thanks. :) BTW I like this thread & I think for the most part the posts have been respectfull & not personal. I think it is highly appropriate for the repubs to challenge him on this issue & they should. The Dems would do the same if the shoe were on the other foot. It's just part of politics. A Snake/Mike should make no apologies whatsoever for starting this thread. It is a highly relevant & appropriate question which should be debated & answered. BTW Loved MikeW's use of "Omama"!!!!!!! :D Funny stuff Buddy. :) Keep it up. :)
 
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"Then there is your gut feeling. A lot can be learned from what people don't tell you. The old adage that actions speak louder than words is a time proven truism. I believe people who have nothing to hide will seek to provide open disclosure. It is in their best interest to do so.

Those that refuse to provide corroborating information...even in direct defiance of a court order...suggest to me an intent to keep the truth hidden."

Your words above ring truer every day with each politician coming forward with affairs, corruption, and lies. My gut feel is that he is more American than any other nationality, so, I have decided not to pursue additional information on it.

In regards to citizenship, why are not the governors, senators and congressmen held to the same standard? Why did ANYONE think Arnold should be governor? And, also in regards to citizenship and to echo Carpe Kid's sentiments, why are we being overran with other cultures/languages? I don't know of any other country where they adapt to a foriegner moving to their country. I know this country is a melting pot, always has been, but that doesn't mean that our history, culture and language should become second nature, does it?
 
I like the way France handles immigrants. The immigrant MUST speak French and adopt French culture and dress like the French. Of course, that sort of thing just wouldn't fly in the U.S.

It does seem that after a generation immigrants become pretty well Americanized. I hope that trend continues.
 
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