Check this link/video out - http://blog.powerblocktv.com/?p=4129
Are NASCAR drivers athletes?
- Thread starter Tim M
- Start date
Yes they are athletes. I agree with the video. Additionally, what they didn't cover is the extreme mental aspect of the sport. There is no other sport that requires an extreme level of long-sustained high mental concentration. Finally, and most importantly, there is no other sport in which the likely-hood of DEATH is one of the potential outcomes at any given moment.
I must say I was skeptical about their athleticism.
That ended the moment I began tracking my car. Once you've worn a fire suit and helmet while wrestling your car around the track in 100+ degree weather you become acutely aware of the physical demands. Hell, I even notice the difference in effort between a 20 minute and 30 minute session.
I can tell you who aren't athletes - major league pitchers from the late 20th century on. Most of them are fat and get worn out if they have to throw more than 30 pitches. boo hoo.
Steve
That ended the moment I began tracking my car. Once you've worn a fire suit and helmet while wrestling your car around the track in 100+ degree weather you become acutely aware of the physical demands. Hell, I even notice the difference in effort between a 20 minute and 30 minute session.
I can tell you who aren't athletes - major league pitchers from the late 20th century on. Most of them are fat and get worn out if they have to throw more than 30 pitches. boo hoo.
Steve
- Thread starter
- #4
Mark, actually, Football, Basketball, and Baseball have all had on field deaths either from heat exhaustion, and or bad hearts. It can happen at any moment with any sport. My fire suit isn't insulated, and I sweat a lot especially when there are long sessions.
Yes it can happen at any time in any sport, but in motorsports - it's an inherent and on-going risk. The normal coarse of the event is life-threatening - like base jumping or cliff diving. Except in motorsports like NASCAR the life-threatening event lasts for several hours over a period of days considering practicing, qualifying and the actual race.
If you make a mistake in a stick and ball sport, the worst that may happen is a penalty or a bruised ego. If you make a mistake at Daytona running 205 MPH on the back stretch you may die and/or kill someone else either on the track or in the stands. Every race there are a number of accidents and we all look for that window net to go down, and when it does we think - whew - he's okay, he didn't die. Every race. Can you imagine if every single baseball game had a number of players taken off the field on a stretcher?
Also, another often overlooked part of NASCAR is the team element. The pit crew has to execute their job flawlessly as well. Without a decent pit crew, the best driver in the world running the fastest car could not win a single race. Also consider the inherent danger of high speed fuel transfer - very dangerous, very physical. Or, tire changers. Try changing a tire with cars rumbling by at 40 or 50 miles an hour just a few inches from your backside - and do it in a matter of seconds or you loose. Not only is NASCAR a sport - it's a team sport - and a bloodsport.
I can't think of another sport that is as intense as Motorsports. That's why we love it.
mmarshall
Member #053
Not to minimize what they do but I am not sure I totally agree. There are lots of sports that have the same or harder demands as Nascar drivers. They neglected to concentrate on the cooling tubes they use to pump air into their helmets and water cooling suits to keep them cool.
Here are a few other examples:
1. Formula 1 also runs long races with the driver sitting in direct sunlight pulling double the G forces on race tracks in places like Dubai.
2. Baja and Dakar racers run all day with very limited visibility through the desert on terrain they have never seen before.
3. Off road motorcycle endurance riders run 2+ hour races on hot days and have a much higher physical exertion than someone driving a car. If you have ever ridden motocross you know what I mean.
4. I flew many combat missions in Iraq that had me in a 140 degree cockpit for 5 hours non-stop. I not only had the full complement of Nomex on but also wore a flack jacket, 20 lb ceramic plate, and a 20 lb survival vest. We maintained constant communication on 3 different radios, and with 4 other crewmembers. All the while navigating and responding to periodic threats from the enemy, while operating a 50,000 lb aircraft as low as 10' off the desert floor at 200 mph in formation with 3 other overloaded helicopters. At least it was only 117 degrees outside so we had a nice cool breeze....not. Sometimes we did all this in a blacked out cockpit under night vision goggles. Talk about dehydration.. I would go for 3 days without urinating after a mission. What a time saver!
5. I have a friend that is a roofer and spends 10 hours hauling 70 lb bundles of shingles up a 2 story ladder to a hot roof on a 105 degree day. He does this 5-7 days a week. He says those conveyor belt delivery systems are really nice.
My point is there are lots of examples of people that have hot, miserable, demanding, dangerous, and exhausting jobs but I am not sure these things automatically makes you an athlete. I know my experience with #4 above did nothing for my athleticisim. It just made me hot, tired, and miserable. Most people that do these jobs don't need the label of athlete, hero or whatever label people feel the need to attach to them. They just go to work, suck it up and do their job. As Mark said, some people do it as recreation.
Here are a few other examples:
1. Formula 1 also runs long races with the driver sitting in direct sunlight pulling double the G forces on race tracks in places like Dubai.
2. Baja and Dakar racers run all day with very limited visibility through the desert on terrain they have never seen before.
3. Off road motorcycle endurance riders run 2+ hour races on hot days and have a much higher physical exertion than someone driving a car. If you have ever ridden motocross you know what I mean.
4. I flew many combat missions in Iraq that had me in a 140 degree cockpit for 5 hours non-stop. I not only had the full complement of Nomex on but also wore a flack jacket, 20 lb ceramic plate, and a 20 lb survival vest. We maintained constant communication on 3 different radios, and with 4 other crewmembers. All the while navigating and responding to periodic threats from the enemy, while operating a 50,000 lb aircraft as low as 10' off the desert floor at 200 mph in formation with 3 other overloaded helicopters. At least it was only 117 degrees outside so we had a nice cool breeze....not. Sometimes we did all this in a blacked out cockpit under night vision goggles. Talk about dehydration.. I would go for 3 days without urinating after a mission. What a time saver!
5. I have a friend that is a roofer and spends 10 hours hauling 70 lb bundles of shingles up a 2 story ladder to a hot roof on a 105 degree day. He does this 5-7 days a week. He says those conveyor belt delivery systems are really nice.
My point is there are lots of examples of people that have hot, miserable, demanding, dangerous, and exhausting jobs but I am not sure these things automatically makes you an athlete. I know my experience with #4 above did nothing for my athleticisim. It just made me hot, tired, and miserable. Most people that do these jobs don't need the label of athlete, hero or whatever label people feel the need to attach to them. They just go to work, suck it up and do their job. As Mark said, some people do it as recreation.
- Thread starter
- #8
Good point Mike. Wasn't intending to single out this profession, just sharing the video as many say it's not a sport....which...to your point, maybe it's not. Maybe it's just a hot, tiring dangerous JOB to the drivers.....ok, I get it
To quote the late Rodney king: Can't we all just get along?
Just kidding guys. Both sides make a compelling agurment, but each can also always pull out the exceptions. it was a nice discussion though.
Just kidding guys. Both sides make a compelling agurment, but each can also always pull out the exceptions. it was a nice discussion though.
No problems - just a nice discussion.
But, Motorsports is a sport not a job. Roofers & soldiers is a job not a sport. Both require various levels of fitness, endurance, stamina, etc.
An athlete by definition is someone involved in playing sports. So, are motorsports drivers athletes - yes. Nobody is watching roofers ply their trade on network television or paying 100 bucks a ticket to fill grandstands to watch a roof being put on. A good roofer requires a certain level of physical fitness, but they're not professional athletes.
But, Motorsports is a sport not a job. Roofers & soldiers is a job not a sport. Both require various levels of fitness, endurance, stamina, etc.
An athlete by definition is someone involved in playing sports. So, are motorsports drivers athletes - yes. Nobody is watching roofers ply their trade on network television or paying 100 bucks a ticket to fill grandstands to watch a roof being put on. A good roofer requires a certain level of physical fitness, but they're not professional athletes.
RugbyRef
Member #062
Agreed....motorsports is incredibly intense. My dad use to race back in the day and I remember him getting out of his car completely drenched in sweat. He once told me it was the fastest way to lose weight!
Myself - I play rugby...another bloodsport.
Tim
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mmarshall
Member #053
Tim the point I was trying to make is the criteria of G-forces, heat, life threatening conditions, and physical exhaustion have nothing to do with determining if something is a sport or the participants are athletes. They are athletes because they are in fierce competition for a prize. No need to try to complicate it any further with other criteria.
"The word athlete originates from the Greek word "athlos" meaning contest. It was officially used at the first Olympic games in 776 BC in Olympia, Greece."
Have you ever watched one of those logging competitions? They took a dangerous job (logging which is similar to roofing) and turned it into a sport. My job in aviation does not qualify me as an athlete, but Aerobatic pilots do something similar and are athletes. They are the aviation version of a F1 driver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvXGlX_YvOM
- Thread starter
- #13
I was agreeing with you....good points...really. Although Mark brought up a good point about the differences of a job and a sport I suppose too....Guess I'm on the fence with this. A local DJ says "if it doesn't have a ball or a bat/racket...it can't be a sport". Hmmmm 
Sports that don't have sticks and balls:
Swimming, diving, wrestling, boxing, running, gymnastics, skiing, snowboading, and any motorsports - just to name a few.
Swimming, diving, wrestling, boxing, running, gymnastics, skiing, snowboading, and any motorsports - just to name a few.
mmarshall
Member #053
Mark many of those are far more athletic sports than the stick and ball examples. Obviously that DJ is clueless.
Neat discussion. Agreed. I would also consider competitive aerobatic flying as a form of motorsports. Therefore, a sport. Other sports without sticks and balls, figure skating and speed skating. Can you think of more?
So then the line between sports and recreation begins to blur. Question - what about ballroom dancing, or hunting, or competitive shooting, or archery, or horse racing?
Sport or recreation?
Philosophical question then - So what is a "sport"? And what is recreation?
I'd suggest the following for a sport, and no I did not look at wikipedia.
1) requires competition
2) requires practice
3) requires some form of physical fitness and/or special physical talent
4) requires an increased level of mental aquity or concentration
Along the same lines philosophically speaking consider this. If a monkey can blow a kazoo, is it music? If an elephant can put paintbrush to canvas, is it art? If a dog can ride a surfboard, is he a surfer?
Neat discussion. Some things to think about.
So then the line between sports and recreation begins to blur. Question - what about ballroom dancing, or hunting, or competitive shooting, or archery, or horse racing?
Sport or recreation?
Philosophical question then - So what is a "sport"? And what is recreation?
I'd suggest the following for a sport, and no I did not look at wikipedia.
1) requires competition
2) requires practice
3) requires some form of physical fitness and/or special physical talent
4) requires an increased level of mental aquity or concentration
Along the same lines philosophically speaking consider this. If a monkey can blow a kazoo, is it music? If an elephant can put paintbrush to canvas, is it art? If a dog can ride a surfboard, is he a surfer?
Neat discussion. Some things to think about.
- Thread starter
- #17
So based on your criteria, duck hunting is a sport, maybe not like it used to be, but still a sport. Your in competition with the duck, it requires practice to make the shot, requires physical fitness is required to retrieve the duck in the middle of a field and requires a great deal of concentration. Now, why it's not a sport like it used to be is due to ATV's and motorized boats.