A Snake
Member #024
I'll tell ya what is wrong...when someone disagrees with me...nuff said.
Some things are just wrong, like........
- Thread starter Matthew 10:16
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Matthew 10:16
Member # 003
- Thread starter
- #22
You rule bud
They got him good $3500.00 fine plus court cost ( basicly he left them 500 ft from a highway endangering anyone in a car, big dogs ) 800 hours of community service and 2 years probation witch during that time can not own a pet ( I didn't hear if this only pertained to a dog or ?? and he had a attorney so there is more money. Glad to see them sock it to Charles S. Horray for the court system on this I Never did find out what the outstanding warrant was for when he was arrested on the spot. Wish I could take a guy like that and dump his ass in the desert.
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Kerry:
I substantially agree with you, however our accepted treatment of domesticated animals is vastly different from how we treat human beings. When one of our parents falls and breaks a leg we don't shoot them, nor do we take our grandparents to the doctor to be put down when they become too ill.
I have no problem with civil penalties (fines) for the abuse of animals. But I still draw the line at being deprived of my God given freedom if I should abuse an animal.
A thought just occurred to me - if I go to a bar, get drunk, get in my car and run over someone, killing them, I will be charged with manslaughter. If instead, I run over a dog and kill it, extrapolating some of the laws that have been posted here, I should receive a sentence equivalent to the one for running over a person. I'd be surprised if anyone here would agree with that.
God gave us dominion over the animals. That dominion carries with it the responsibility to treat those animals appropriately. But I don't believe it was meant to imply that animals are on the same level as humans. Imprisonment for crimes against animals does.
Steve
What they did to Michael Vick is outrageous. Now, I know what he did was wrong and he deserved to be punished. But his punishment far outweighs his crime. After serving his prison term and being paroled, he has to survive on a court ordered stipend of 4000 a month. His mother also gets a small stipend since he was supporting her. His legal bills, and other various debts totaling in the 10s of millions are to be paid via court order out of his NFL paychecks over the next 10 years. So, in reality he is forced by the court to be an NFL MVP quarterback, perform at the very top of the league, making top dollar (about 10 mill a year) for the next several years - basically the entirety of his career and turn all of that money over to his lawyers and debtors all while living on what we would consider poverty level wages. That's a heavy price to pay - and he'll pay it or violate his parole. Can you imagine - if he isn't in the playoffs, or making big plays, or signing big contracts - he'll go back to jail. He's basically a modern day slave.
What is often left out of these discussions is also the massive abuse of drugs and alcohol. Look at Leonard Little. 2 DWIs - and 2 people dead - and he still gets to play every Sunday.
What is often left out of these discussions is also the massive abuse of drugs and alcohol. Look at Leonard Little. 2 DWIs - and 2 people dead - and he still gets to play every Sunday.
Way out in left field on that. He released them next to a highway where vehicles do 55-70 now just imagine A 90 lb lab is hit by a small car this animal may come through the winsheild - what would it do to your cobra Hmm or a motorcycle plain and simple If you don't want them turn them in to the human society - golden retreivers will be picked up by golden resque - you don't just dump a domestic animal and if you do and somebody like me sees it you can bet your butt you will get turned in - I was taught to respect animals for what they are as a kid and why they are here.
Hmmmm, the only thing I will say is Vick has served time for his crime. The justice system agreed with this punishment. "We" the people elected the judges that enforce the justice. We live and abide by the rules of society, and we all agree (I think) that once you've been punished, and have served the time, it should now be in your past. Vick has every right that you do to perform his job. His happens to be as a professional football player that pays lot's of money. What is he supposed to do, go work somewhere that he has no training? Should he have been put away for life?
I agree with most all of the comments made by everyone here, but I guess I most agree with Steve. Let me try this analogy - if an animal (whatever it is) is bred to perform a particular task, it is now natural for the animal to perform that task as that is all it knows. Just as lab's are natural born retrievers, or german shepards are natural born protection animals, Pit bulls are natural born fighters. Can a pit bull be raised in a calm environment and make a good pet? Sure it can. Can a wild animal such as a deer be raised to be domesticated? Yep, I've seen it done. Acted just like a dog. But yet, even when we domesticate a deer, it's ok to hunt them
I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer here, it depends on the environment the animal was raised in I think. Seeing some of the video of the dogs that were found alive, they were obviously scared, beaten and abused? However, we don't know the circumstances that made them that way. Maybe they got their butt handed to them by another dog, and they are really scared of other dogs or any thing that is bigger than them.
Let me ask you this. If one of your current dogs were to hurt a grandbaby of yours by putting it's arm in it's mouth and shaking violently enough to permanently damage the arm because the baby poked it in the eye.? Euthanize it? Take it to the humane society? what? Sorry for the long reply.
I agree with most all of the comments made by everyone here, but I guess I most agree with Steve. Let me try this analogy - if an animal (whatever it is) is bred to perform a particular task, it is now natural for the animal to perform that task as that is all it knows. Just as lab's are natural born retrievers, or german shepards are natural born protection animals, Pit bulls are natural born fighters. Can a pit bull be raised in a calm environment and make a good pet? Sure it can. Can a wild animal such as a deer be raised to be domesticated? Yep, I've seen it done. Acted just like a dog. But yet, even when we domesticate a deer, it's ok to hunt them
I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer here, it depends on the environment the animal was raised in I think. Seeing some of the video of the dogs that were found alive, they were obviously scared, beaten and abused? However, we don't know the circumstances that made them that way. Maybe they got their butt handed to them by another dog, and they are really scared of other dogs or any thing that is bigger than them.
Let me ask you this. If one of your current dogs were to hurt a grandbaby of yours by putting it's arm in it's mouth and shaking violently enough to permanently damage the arm because the baby poked it in the eye.? Euthanize it? Take it to the humane society? what? Sorry for the long reply.
Will still say the N F L should have never let him come back. If he isn't in the playoffs, or making big plays, or signing big contracts - he'll go back to jail. He's basically a modern day slave. I for 1 hope he goes back to jail. He played dumb and acted like he Knew nothing about the dog fights and judges and courts know how to deal with lieing sacks of crap.
Try this one then - Premise - it's human nature to apply human charisma to "cute" animals. We love our dogs and cats because they are cute and friendly. We as a group, a majority, we protect the creatures. We covet them, we groom them, and love them for many reasons. We don't want them harmed.
However there are a very small percentage of people that own reptiles - snakes of all sizes, lizards big and small. They love their animals too. To many of us we don't like or understand that - but to them it's the same kind of fondness. Those well meaning folks go to pet stores and buy cute little mice, bunnies, and chicks - to feed them live to their pet snakes and reptiles.
I think it's a matter of perspective.
How about this. Every year I help my wife weed the landscaping in our yard. And every year I pull out some fugly plant that I know is a weed - only to get yelled at by my wife that, that is not a weed - it's a flower.
However there are a very small percentage of people that own reptiles - snakes of all sizes, lizards big and small. They love their animals too. To many of us we don't like or understand that - but to them it's the same kind of fondness. Those well meaning folks go to pet stores and buy cute little mice, bunnies, and chicks - to feed them live to their pet snakes and reptiles.
I think it's a matter of perspective.
How about this. Every year I help my wife weed the landscaping in our yard. And every year I pull out some fugly plant that I know is a weed - only to get yelled at by my wife that, that is not a weed - it's a flower.
This is the same NFL that let's gun waving, bar fighting, knife weilding, wife beating, girl rapers, crack smoking, drug dealing, DWI killers play every Sunday in every major city in the country - and you're worried about a guy that harmed some dogs??? Really?
Michael Vick flat lied and tried to blame it on others, does this sound familiar I didn't see anything, no i don't know them, no that wasn't me , I don't know what your talking about, come on you can't be that naive. He just fully got his butt nailed and isn't he supposed to be a role model. You might want to look up the cases both state and federal and refresh your memory
Not just about harming dogs
R
rednour1
Guest
I agree with Mark. There are much bigger issues out there that are overlooked.
As much as I love animals. In the end they are just that, an animal. They are cutier, smarter, and friendlier than cows, or we would be eating them also! (cows also probably taste beter). People get carried away when you start talking about pets. Too many people substitiute them for children, and many treat them better!
I grew up on a farm. When your dog got sick or hurt you didn't take them to the vet and spend thousands on them, you took them to the .22 vet. Made you grow up quick and taught life lessons. I do agree you should not abuse animals in any form.
I remember just after I moved off the farm. The old farm dog had died, and my brother when to adopt a new one from the inhumane society. They wouldn't let him adopt the dog because it would not be kept inside or have a fenced yard. Really? No dog is ever happier than life on the farm. I went and adopted the dog, and he picked it up from my house that night. They still have that dog, and I guarantte that it is happier than any dog that sits inside and waits 8+ hours for its owner to get home so it can pee.
Sorry, I'll step off my soap box now.
As much as I love animals. In the end they are just that, an animal. They are cutier, smarter, and friendlier than cows, or we would be eating them also! (cows also probably taste beter). People get carried away when you start talking about pets. Too many people substitiute them for children, and many treat them better!
I grew up on a farm. When your dog got sick or hurt you didn't take them to the vet and spend thousands on them, you took them to the .22 vet. Made you grow up quick and taught life lessons. I do agree you should not abuse animals in any form.
I remember just after I moved off the farm. The old farm dog had died, and my brother when to adopt a new one from the inhumane society. They wouldn't let him adopt the dog because it would not be kept inside or have a fenced yard. Really? No dog is ever happier than life on the farm. I went and adopted the dog, and he picked it up from my house that night. They still have that dog, and I guarantte that it is happier than any dog that sits inside and waits 8+ hours for its owner to get home so it can pee.
Sorry, I'll step off my soap box now.
I was thinking that, about the cow's, this morning as I was driving out to Columbia. Those are domesticated, but we don't complain how we abuse these animals. Go to a dairy farm, you will see cow upon cow in a pen, just big enough for them to stand (and where they stay for their lives) just to milk. Food is brought to them, water is there, all they do is stand in one place for their entire lives giving milk. Humane?
However, back to the topic at hand - If serving time in a prison, with a felony record now to your name and millions of lost revenue because you were in jail isn't enough punishment - then what is? Should we have sent him to the electric chair?!
These are reasons why I finally woke up and now use my power to vote, to offset the "others" 
Matthew 10:16
Member # 003
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- #35
R
rednour1
Guest
Dave,
Usually if I don't step off, sooner or later I knock myself off!
Tim,
Thats not how it works on most dairy farms, at least any I have ever been to. I'm living next to the largest dairy county of our state. These days most med-large size farms move them in and out of an automated system (machines do the milking), small still do it the old fashioned way. Some even have radio collars so they track how much each cow produces, and know how many times it has been milked that day. The cows will line up like clockwork, they know when its time to milk.
Check out Fair Oaks farms in Northern Indiana if you want to see state of the art. They produce enough milk for the city of Chicago! they are more of entertainment than a regular dairy farm.
Usually if I don't step off, sooner or later I knock myself off!
Tim,
Thats not how it works on most dairy farms, at least any I have ever been to. I'm living next to the largest dairy county of our state. These days most med-large size farms move them in and out of an automated system (machines do the milking), small still do it the old fashioned way. Some even have radio collars so they track how much each cow produces, and know how many times it has been milked that day. The cows will line up like clockwork, they know when its time to milk.
Check out Fair Oaks farms in Northern Indiana if you want to see state of the art. They produce enough milk for the city of Chicago! they are more of entertainment than a regular dairy farm.
And you're worried about a guy that harmed some dogs??? Really ------ Your still missing the point He lied and yes I 100 % agree he was a proud moment for the NFL . And you say HARMED -- Really this sack of crap slaughtered and killed many not just 1 or 2 you know how to use a computer go back and look at the charges both federal and state. And you can bet that as soon as he is out of site by the law this dope will be in trouble again with the law. He like many pro players will be taken down due to his stupidity and money combined.
And he once again will be another proud moment for the NFL, we have seen this all before.
I think I've seen this qute before in this thread. It's like Deja Vu all over again. I think someone's definitely missing a point or two in this thread.
Check out the shooting
Michael Vick, the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback who returned to pro football this year after a prison term for dog fighting and remains on probation, has denied involvement in a nightclub shooting at his 30th birthday celebration that again placed the former superstar at the center of a police investigation. And here again he lies - said he was already gone at the time of the shooting - police retrieved surveillance footage from restaurant that shows he was there - so he is far from being the saint you might think he is, Mark if would would like me to get you some reading glasses so you can read about your hero ( bet his mom says he was a good boy ) just p.m. me
Michael Vick, the Philadelphia Eagles quarterback who returned to pro football this year after a prison term for dog fighting and remains on probation, has denied involvement in a nightclub shooting at his 30th birthday celebration that again placed the former superstar at the center of a police investigation. And here again he lies - said he was already gone at the time of the shooting - police retrieved surveillance footage from restaurant that shows he was there - so he is far from being the saint you might think he is, Mark if would would like me to get you some reading glasses so you can read about your hero ( bet his mom says he was a good boy ) just p.m. me
A Snake
Member #024
How did the hunter say it? I don't shoot innocent animals, just the guilty looking ones.
When I was in Viet Nam one of the men in my squad tent bought a large snake(python). He kept it in a gunny sack under his bunk and told me not to worry, they only eat a couples of times a year...my response was I hope I am not present when it gets hungry..I do not like snakes....scare the hell out of me. This fellow went on 3 day R&R and upon his return he found that someone had killed and and skinned it...tried to blame me. Remember, I do not like snakes....I would have shot it and let it right there...not getting my hands on it.
When I was in Viet Nam one of the men in my squad tent bought a large snake(python). He kept it in a gunny sack under his bunk and told me not to worry, they only eat a couples of times a year...my response was I hope I am not present when it gets hungry..I do not like snakes....scare the hell out of me. This fellow went on 3 day R&R and upon his return he found that someone had killed and and skinned it...tried to blame me. Remember, I do not like snakes....I would have shot it and let it right there...not getting my hands on it.